Re: The key phrase is "should be. "
Lady Isa Avanderidhril Send a noteboard - 03/09/2009 09:47:39 AM
Here public administrations (like your Medicare would be I guess) have to ask a price offer from at least 3 or more suppliers before making a contract with one company (must be the cheapest be justified otherwise, some other valuable advantage). It is mandatory whenever publi money is involved.
The theory is good though I must admit there are lots of problems still present, corruption, red tape increase, ...
Without being called a socialist (though in American standards, my political views probably are more on the left than on the right, being European), I'm for the idea of a state-controlled organization ensuring medical care for everyone, even those without a job or money... Now that said, it should be run effectively, and politics being politics (same everywhere), it ain't easy...
I'm still trying to figure out what would be a better solution, but so far I haven't found anything..
*prepares to be flamed*
The argument seems to be the problems was no competitive bidding. Negotiating a price only works if you can tell a wholesaler "your competitor offered me exactly what you have at half the price. " Which isn't a panacea either, if you'll pardon the pun, particularly with things like this; I was born in Houston, and, while it was before my time, I understand they had a saying in the hey days of the Moon race: "Just remember when you're hurtling into orbit at 30,000 mph: You're doing it on lowest bid.... " In this case though it looks like we had the opposite problem, and one that anecdotally arises with Medicare a lot: Medicare doesn't price shop much, and it doesn't negotiate much, which sometimes means it pays a lot more than market prices to keep the good will of seniors, who reliably vote in far greater numbers than any other demographic, and other times means healthcare providers either accept nominal Medicare payments and eat the loss, or try to collect the difference from patients who can't afford it.
Far be it from me to speak for Tom or anyone else, but I believe there are those who would say that IS the fundamental nature of socialized medicine. I don't think it's inherent, though it is sadly prevalent, at least over here, but I've always understood that to be the crux of the argument.
This would be the corruption and/or inefficiency detractors decry in government bureaucracy. Because it NEVER happens in CORPORATE bureaucracy, you see.
The theory is good though I must admit there are lots of problems still present, corruption, red tape increase, ...
Without being called a socialist (though in American standards, my political views probably are more on the left than on the right, being European), I'm for the idea of a state-controlled organization ensuring medical care for everyone, even those without a job or money... Now that said, it should be run effectively, and politics being politics (same everywhere), it ain't easy...
I'm still trying to figure out what would be a better solution, but so far I haven't found anything..
*prepares to be flamed*
There are n suppliers of wheelchairs. There is one very large organisation (Medicare) which will always need to buy lots of wheelchairs. Any supplier that can get a bulk purchase contract with Medicare will make a fortune. Also, since Medicare is government run, they've got the possibility of throwing a tax break for the supplier into the deal as well, if they want to. So Medicare should be in a really good position to negotiate cheap bulk purchase rates for wheelchairs.
The argument seems to be the problems was no competitive bidding. Negotiating a price only works if you can tell a wholesaler "your competitor offered me exactly what you have at half the price. " Which isn't a panacea either, if you'll pardon the pun, particularly with things like this; I was born in Houston, and, while it was before my time, I understand they had a saying in the hey days of the Moon race: "Just remember when you're hurtling into orbit at 30,000 mph: You're doing it on lowest bid.... " In this case though it looks like we had the opposite problem, and one that anecdotally arises with Medicare a lot: Medicare doesn't price shop much, and it doesn't negotiate much, which sometimes means it pays a lot more than market prices to keep the good will of seniors, who reliably vote in far greater numbers than any other demographic, and other times means healthcare providers either accept nominal Medicare payments and eat the loss, or try to collect the difference from patients who can't afford it.
Apparently that's not what's happened, but surely that's because someone in Medicare's pricing department is an idiot, rather than due to the fundamental nature of socialised medicine.
Far be it from me to speak for Tom or anyone else, but I believe there are those who would say that IS the fundamental nature of socialized medicine. I don't think it's inherent, though it is sadly prevalent, at least over here, but I've always understood that to be the crux of the argument.
Also, I'll bet it'll turn out that the $4000 cost to medicare includes extras, like the salary of the person who liaises with the supplier, delivery, and other associated costs; whereas the $1000 supplier's price quoted is just the basic price before sales tax.
This would be the corruption and/or inefficiency detractors decry in government bureaucracy. Because it NEVER happens in CORPORATE bureaucracy, you see.
Lady Isa
nominated WoTboard's Moiraine AND Mesaana
Member of the Fearsome Four
Bonded to Sidious and Phil
Cindy is one Green Redneck
*MySmiley*
Wotmania Forever
nominated WoTboard's Moiraine AND Mesaana
Member of the Fearsome Four
Bonded to Sidious and Phil
Cindy is one Green Redneck
*MySmiley*
Wotmania Forever
This message last edited by Lady Isa Avanderidhril on 03/09/2009 at 09:48:06 AM
For Europeans who don't understand why Americans are against ObamaCare
03/09/2009 04:24:35 AM
- 1151 Views
I'd be happy to tax top "earners" more and suffer Europes economic "collapse. "
03/09/2009 04:30:31 AM
- 624 Views
The US will never work with socialism.
03/09/2009 04:40:21 AM
- 710 Views
Re: The US will never work with socialism.
03/09/2009 04:58:47 AM
- 700 Views
I don't think the mistrust of the government is really all that overblown
03/09/2009 05:04:34 AM
- 619 Views
It's advanced beyond what it was during the Revolution, I think.
03/09/2009 05:18:22 AM
- 660 Views
I would say it's grown with the government
03/09/2009 05:23:52 AM
- 647 Views
The key is that government shouldn't be heavily involved in personal lives.
03/09/2009 05:58:39 AM
- 667 Views
Re: I don't think the mistrust of the government is really all that overblown
04/09/2009 03:30:23 AM
- 585 Views
How much more can we really tax the wealthy??
03/09/2009 04:41:14 AM
- 549 Views
A lot; before Reagans "reforms" we already taxed them less than any other industrialized state did.
03/09/2009 05:06:00 AM
- 665 Views
I hear a lot of socialism coming from you.....
03/09/2009 05:19:08 AM
- 530 Views
Re: I hear a lot of socialism coming from you.....
03/09/2009 05:40:32 AM
- 616 Views
Nice non-answer answer.....
03/09/2009 05:52:04 AM
- 625 Views
You want detailed answers that require detailed data I don't have.
03/09/2009 06:06:55 AM
- 681 Views
Here are some facts and analyses.....
03/09/2009 02:40:22 PM
- 704 Views
The Heritage Foundation, huh?
03/09/2009 03:01:17 PM
- 733 Views
The non-working wealthy? Please quantify.....
03/09/2009 03:31:58 PM
- 719 Views
So you accept the CBOs assessment the House healthcare bill will be $1 trillion over the next decade
04/09/2009 03:02:13 AM
- 609 Views
You're so full of shit on this issue I don't know where to begin.
04/09/2009 03:15:55 AM
- 698 Views
Re: You're so full of shit on this issue I don't know where to begin.
04/09/2009 03:59:21 AM
- 784 Views
Less than 200 people were said to be US persons with Swiss accounts
04/09/2009 04:16:24 AM
- 580 Views
And yet account for many millions of dollars; what does that say...?
04/09/2009 04:21:57 AM
- 617 Views
It's statistically insignificant and your hyperbole is reminiscent of screaming guests on CNN.
04/09/2009 02:07:31 PM
- 518 Views
Well, look at this way:
04/09/2009 02:24:03 PM
- 658 Views
That's not a solution.
05/09/2009 02:39:12 AM
- 669 Views
The Soviets weren't socialist, or even communist, so it's a false comparison.
05/09/2009 03:09:06 AM
- 608 Views
Okay, now you've just gone into Kool-aid drinking territory.
05/09/2009 04:32:07 AM
- 718 Views
Communist THEORY is predicated on democratic participation at every level,totally absent in the USSR
05/09/2009 04:55:00 AM
- 837 Views
Ever heard of the 20-80 rule?
04/09/2009 04:28:54 AM
- 527 Views
Top earners? Please define.....what income and how much more? *NM*
03/09/2009 04:52:25 AM
- 429 Views
That would be open to definition, and should change with inflation.
03/09/2009 05:13:02 AM
- 779 Views
What is your justification for taking over 50% of anyone's income?
03/09/2009 05:28:22 AM
- 707 Views
That's a good example of why I say the rate has to be set to cost of living.
03/09/2009 05:50:16 AM
- 741 Views
Still no comment on the fact that 40% of Americans don't pay any income taxes?
03/09/2009 02:32:12 PM
- 669 Views
To what 40% do you refer?
03/09/2009 02:42:55 PM
- 524 Views
Dude, you are not making this easy.....
03/09/2009 03:38:01 PM
- 561 Views
No one "gets money from the IRS. "
04/09/2009 02:55:02 AM
- 574 Views
Actually with EIC you can get money back that you never paid in.
04/09/2009 02:56:43 AM
- 558 Views
It MIGHT be possible with the EIC, but in practice few people get more than they paid.
04/09/2009 03:43:36 AM
- 598 Views
I don't know, I've known plenty of people that have gotten more back than they paid in
04/09/2009 03:46:29 AM
- 689 Views
Yet another example of your ignorance on tax policy.
04/09/2009 03:19:39 AM
- 510 Views
The word I notice is "welfare"
04/09/2009 03:57:01 AM
- 626 Views
I wouldn't say that's what it means....
04/09/2009 04:02:40 AM
- 629 Views
It's what welfare means to me...
04/09/2009 04:32:17 AM
- 634 Views
I was just talking about EIC as a form of welfare, not welfare welfare. *NM*
04/09/2009 04:45:13 AM
- 387 Views
It's a credit for people who file a return on income that's been taxed.
04/09/2009 04:19:57 AM
- 559 Views
It is only for the WORKING poor, yes.
04/09/2009 02:12:55 PM
- 549 Views
Mean it may be, but hardly illegal.
04/09/2009 02:31:16 PM
- 581 Views
No real comments, just 100% agree with you....plus the $12 trillion is terrifying to me. *NM*
03/09/2009 04:33:39 AM
- 273 Views
Excellent post - the US government is not capable of running HC.....
03/09/2009 04:40:19 AM
- 505 Views
It depends on your level of cynicism
03/09/2009 05:38:53 AM
- 675 Views
when have they ever cut the fat?
03/09/2009 08:35:36 PM
- 596 Views
This doesn't make sense to me.
03/09/2009 08:33:18 AM
- 644 Views
The key phrase is "should be. "
03/09/2009 09:38:15 AM
- 779 Views
Re: The key phrase is "should be. "
03/09/2009 09:47:39 AM
- 625 Views
In fairness, most Europeans don't seem to realize what ObamaCare is.
03/09/2009 02:34:01 PM
- 668 Views
As far as most people I know are concerned, opposition to ObamaCare isn't the issue.
03/09/2009 11:04:36 PM
- 741 Views
It's hard not to be horrified with a government as wasteful as ours
03/09/2009 11:24:59 PM
- 524 Views
For Americans who don't understand why Canadians like their public healthcare.
04/09/2009 04:23:11 AM
- 645 Views
Correction
04/09/2009 04:44:32 AM
- 626 Views
Re: Correction
04/09/2009 05:05:11 AM
- 704 Views