At least they retain rather than perverting the sense.
Joel Send a noteboard - 03/02/2010 06:44:37 AM
Heh, I see. Still, that's a lot better than most folks could manage on a personal budget; I'd wager it was every penny of $10k, and probably closer to twice that. If it was Celestron, they don't make a 12" SCT (though they do make an 11" ) and I can't even find the tube online for <$5k (marked down from >$8k in one case. ) Obviously adding mounts, tripods, motors and computer databases will push that substantially higher even before we start talking quality eyepieces and filters.
I want to say the grant was 120k, we may have added some funds from the school's coffers and this was a decade and change back, but it was for the whole building, dome, scope, computers, and I think they even had to run power buried to it, which I'm sure cost at least a few grand. Neverthless I'm sure the scope was a good 10k minimum, probably more. Yeah, that makes sense; I wasn't really sure what you had beyond the cupola and scope, but once you start adding computers and stuff the price mounts fast, especially if you throw in your own power source (come to that, most motorized SCTs are intended to run on car batteries, which typically entails a car, though it needn't. )
I think you're generally correct; typically when you get to that scale and degree of interest it makes a lot of sense to sell your old one when you buy a new one because it takes a lot off the new ones pricetag, and you're not going to use your 9.5" SCT much once you unpack that 14" (this is one of the reasons I advise people to find out as much as they can about what they want BEFORE purchase, and then get precisely that or as close as they can afford so they don't buy a dozen telescopes over 20 years. ) Personally, I'm not sold on the 9.5" because it seems like a poor compromise for people who want >8" but can't quite get high enough for an 11". It's another example of what I said above: Don't upgrade one step at a time, go in leaps, because otherwise you end up paying a lot more money for marginal performance increases. My 4.5" reflector is a great scope and I love it, but if/when I buy the next one it'll be the 8" SCT, which is a whole other animal.
I'd agree, too many upgrades in between and you're basically just tossing money away, even if you get a good price on resale. The nice thing about the first scope you buy (as opposed to marginally functional ones most of us got as kids) is you can regift it to a kid or nice/nephew etc, but after that any higher end scope is just gonna gather dust once you upgrade, might as well try to get a decent price on ebay. Personally I doubt I'd ever go beyond a 8", the CGEM 800 looks pretty good and I could see myself buying it or something like it in the future, but anything beyond that, I can't see myself stargazing often enough to justify that even if I was rolling in cash, too much existential guilt. Ironically I'd be more likely to go further up with a dob because then I could justify it as 'an educational expense' if I had kids. "Come children, let's go work on daddy's light bucket". I probably should buy a new scope, I like the look of the Nexstar line but something in me rebels about having computer controls on a personal scope, presumably the same one that prefer paperbacks to ebooks and shudders at the idea of getting an electric tea kettle, need to be ale to fiddle with the knobs or the fun's gone.
Sounds like we're of a mind there; if I NEED the Nexstars computer, nice as it is, I probably need to NOT drop the cash for an 8+" SCT until I know wtf I'm doing. The Nexstars are NICE, don't get me wrong; the alignment process is almost idiot proof and very quick, and then it's basically point and click. But since I wanted one myself (someday... ) I remember the price on the old C-8 with and without computer VERY well:
$1200 w/o, $2000 with.
Again, back then the Nexstar only existed as a brand new 5" (and to underscore the point, it was $1200, so you could trade its computer for nearly twice as much aperture) but the Nexstar 8 usually goes for around $2000 new today, so we're basically talking 67% more money for a computer. And 67% of a four digit number is a LOT of money I don't have to spend, because I'm not an idiot (further evidenced by refusing to spend $2000 for the same optical performance available for a little over half as much. )
The main thing that makes me leery of buying an SCT on EBay is I have little more security than the sellers feedback history and (possibly) shipping insurance, and I remember the hell my mom went through with an insured candy dish that was about $20 and arrived broken. I don't want to play that game with $500 or more. Anyone going that route, however, should read the description carefully; sometimes it's a scope with motor, tripod and maybe even a computer. Others it's just a tube and you'll have to buy a mount, tripod and motor, and you may end up spending as much that way as you would buying it new, with less warranty and possibly a discontinued unsupported scope (I'd love to get the old C-8, but they were discontinuing it 15 years ago to make way for Nexstars, and now it's only available used. )
I always encourage people to use ebay but for these sort of reasons I almost never buy things used off the net, even books, and it's pretty hard for someone to destroy one of those to the point it can't be resold and properly used, short of maybe dropping it in the bathtub.
I've never used it before, and if I'm going to experiment with it to learn the risks I'm not going to start with hundreds or thousands of dollars. I believe my mother finally did get her money back because she got buyer protection--but she spent a few months arguing with the seller, the post office AND EBay. For $20. It was so much fun it soured her on EBay for good; I prefer not to have the same experience with an order of magnitude or more money.
Brass is useless ornamentation, IMHO, but all I've heard is that wood>metal for tripods because it handles changing weather conditions better, doesn't expand and contract with temperature and humidity to as great a degree.
I guess brass was ideal prior to aluminum, presumably it gives stuff an antique feel. Wood probably is okay as the tripod, but I'd think fiberglass would be better.Might be, but I'm not sure how weight bearing stacks up, and most things I've seen made out of fiberglass age badly, especially when exposed to the elements. There's plenty of 16th century antique furniture out there (all things considered but I don't know how much fiberglass stuff made today will be around in 2510.
Not really sure why anyone would by a dobsonian, make one, sure, but buy one of them? Always look like someone couldn't decide if they were building a water heater or a cannon.
That may be the best description I've ever heard. Not everyone is great with precision engineering though; I fantasize about one of the huge truss reflectors you see in science mags, but it would be very easy to screw up assembly, and while $2000-$3000 is a steal for 2-3' of aperture, it's still a lot of money to leave on the curb for pickup.
It seems safe to do it, emphasis 'seems', I'm looking over a pdf on building them right now (link below) and it doesn't seem like too hard a project. Definetly two-person I think, at least for a lot of it. Except for the optics nothing in it is pricy enough that a mistake ruins the project. There's really no minimum size for one, so I suppose a proto-type would be advisable before shooting for a full blown juggernaut.
It does seem that way to me, but if you screw up one of those mirrors you've got an expensive piece of junk. Maybe some or all of the retailers (though most of them seem to be direct mail) offer replacement mirrors, but I'd want to be very sure of that, and that it wouldn't be thousands more, before I attempted something like that. I mean, think about it: If nearly all the precision equipment is the mirrors and the rest is basically just polished sheet metal, where would you expect most of the expense to lie?
Yeah, if you've got a laptop it's totally doable (I don't, because I still feel I can get more computer for the money with a desktop, plus I hear laptops don't really have modular design, so you "upgrade" with a new one. )
I'm typing on a desktop right now, haven't bought a laptop in years, but I've owned two and I was doing a lot of traveling at the time so it was worth it. Now, not really expecting to travel much, so I'd agree.
Yeah, I'm pretty much at home when on the computer, too, and when I'm not home the only NEED I have for one is to go online (which I don't really need anyway, I just enjoy it. )
I hear ya, man, believe me. We've still got multiple disk cases filled with 5.25" disks with everything from DOS 2.10 (my original OS) to Wordstar 3.0 to a copy of Norton Utilities that was so hard to find my parents had to go to their CS instructors house for it.
Ah, wordstar, I still remember when WYSIWYG was new and cool and a megabyte was a lot of data. Somewhere around here I have dot matrix printer and a 286, probably still work. This is why I despise computers and cell phones, they change too fast, I know all sorts of tricks for software that no longer exists, that bugs me.
I've still got a 286 myself; my dad got it for me for Christmas one year as an upgrade over my folks original (and I do mean ORIGINAL) PC. Took me forever to realize it had an internal hard drive (20 whole megs, man!) I used to sneer at people who couldn't write a decent batch file; I still know how to do it in DOS, but all the commands have been replaced by point and grunt (and pray Explorer doesn't decide to crash. )
And, yes, I firmly believe the top telescope brands are tops for a reason. I much prefer Celestrons SCOPES; they're a little more expensive than Meade, but they also developed the process of mass producing Schmidt corrector plates that made them commercially viable. Meade basically "flattered" Celestron when they began using the same process, but while they are slightly less expensive I think Celestron still makes the better quality scopes. I generally prefer Meades eyepieces though; I don't know why, but they seem to be sturdier and perform better. IMHO, it's a big step down in quality to Orion, and I don't seriously consider anything less. Bushnell makes DECENT spotting scopes if you're on a budget, but anything more from them is throwing away money, IMHO.
Haven't worked with either enough or recently enough to be able to say, but both are reliable companies. I don't like bushnell though, a rifle scope bias, I tend to think of Leupold as making superior scopes than Bushnell.
To be honest the only Bushnell telescope I've dealt with was our baby refractor that was STRICTLY a spotting scope. People would come in all the time, see the $100 pricetag and think they were set, and I'd have to tell them, "Yeah, if you just want to watch birds or your neighbors wife, that's the thing; if you want to do astronomy let me show you this 3" altazimuth reflector for about $50 more, or better yet this 4.5" equatorial reflector if it's not too steep. " It was still the cheap weak sister of what Celestron and Meade made. I've heard they make decent binoculars, but my impression is the same thing is true of telescopic sights as telescopes in general: You get what you pay for (if you know your stuff) and you're generally better off going with a specialist dedicated to performance than a generalist dedicated to volume sales.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Biggest and Brightest Full Moon of 2010 Tonight
29/01/2010 06:22:59 PM
- 799 Views
you will have to tell me how it was we are suppossed to get rain all night *NM*
29/01/2010 07:18:13 PM
- 279 Views
I thought it was looking pretty big and bright at 5pm today... *NM*
29/01/2010 07:20:28 PM
- 240 Views
The illusion always seemed pretty simply explained to me.
30/01/2010 03:02:05 AM
- 458 Views
I was, naturally, interested in seeing it. Clouds thwarted my plans.
30/01/2010 10:24:16 PM
- 648 Views
Re: I was, naturally, interested in seeing it. Clouds thwarted my plans.
31/01/2010 02:10:30 AM
- 452 Views
You'd be suprised how much you can see with "ordinary" binoculars.
31/01/2010 05:11:00 AM
- 425 Views
Likely wise, though it also reminds me of one those expensive addons I mentioned.
31/01/2010 05:16:56 AM
- 577 Views
Celestron sells a stereo bino set for $200
31/01/2010 07:38:33 AM
- 583 Views
Heh, it may have actually gone DOWN, I believe.
31/01/2010 12:49:15 PM
- 624 Views
Anemiconomy, I'll have to steal that
31/01/2010 02:03:12 PM
- 473 Views
Stealing my one liners is all the rage these days.
31/01/2010 02:38:54 PM
- 514 Views
Theft is flattery
31/01/2010 06:20:31 PM
- 604 Views
Only when confessed and not contorted into caricature.
01/02/2010 06:52:30 AM
- 524 Views
I feel your pain, people steal my jokes than give wretched deliveries
01/02/2010 09:04:25 AM
- 630 Views
At least they retain rather than perverting the sense.
03/02/2010 06:44:37 AM
- 1035 Views
Regrettably not
03/02/2010 02:31:56 PM
- 532 Views
Re: Regrettably not
15/02/2010 08:54:34 AM
- 478 Views
The two of you old farts should really jump ship to Slackware
15/02/2010 02:59:47 PM
- 433 Views
I should have moondog give me a Linux tutorial one day is what I SHOULD do.
15/02/2010 03:03:56 PM
- 422 Views