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It was bound to happen sooner or later. Joel Send a noteboard - 02/02/2010 04:10:13 AM
Or even most. Not that it really matters, because whether you accept the labels validity or not, murdering civilians to inflict terror and motivate a favorable political response based on fear is terrorism. If you want to fight a war over politics, field an army against another and let the soldiers kill each other, but when you start going after kids and clerics it's not "guerrilla warfare" it's terrorism. The difference isn't whether the attacker wears a uniform, but whether the target does. Terrorism is only used by groups who know they can't win a standup fight, but calling American militiamen sniping redcoats from behind a tree the same as blowing up a school bus insults my intelligence as much as my country.


That is how I would parse the distinction between a "terrorist" and a "guerilla" or "freedom-fighter." Regardless of whatever method you use, from conventional weapons to WMDs to suicide bombings to IEDs, if you target military personnel and apparatus, you are the latter. If you engage civilians in order to effect a political outcome, you are a terrorist. I have zero qualms about lumping in the aerial bombing campaigns of World War Two under this heading, either, or the Viet Cong habits of attacking sympathetic civilians.

On the other hand, collateral damage among civilians in a clear attempt to target legitimate military targets or guerillas or terrorists is acceptable, within reason. Obviously, blowing up a crowded theater to get a single soldier in the audience is a bit extreme, or decimating the civilian population of a town because terrorists are known to be hiding among them.

My only quibble is that, while no country is perfect, Allied bombings of non-military targets in WWII was very much the exception rather than the rule. Even in Dresden; Wikipedia notes (and cites; they didn't pull it out of thin air) that claim is disputed on the grounds that "several researchers have argued that not all of the communications infrastructure, such as the bridges, were in fact targeted, nor were the extensive industrial areas outside the city centre. " That's fine if you want to believe the Allies deliberately ignored significant military targets just to inflict suffering on the civilian German populace, but since the Allied commanders probably knew better than anyone that the German populace had little say in the war by then it seems dubious. All of that said, however, a case can be made, and if one accepts that case then I agree it would qualify as terrorism. Deliberately targeting civilians as an end in itself is reprehensible whoever does it, but if you insist on zero civilian casualties then every invading army will mount babies on the front of their tanks.

Whether we can sell our agreed upon definition of "terrorist" and "guerrilla" remains to be seen.... :disapprove:
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All Terrorists are Muslims… except the 94% that aren’t. - 01/02/2010 10:42:12 PM 1715 Views
I find that unsurprising. - 01/02/2010 11:31:43 PM 406 Views
Lot of BS in there - 01/02/2010 11:33:08 PM 517 Views
I'm afraid I have to agree with this. - 01/02/2010 11:46:02 PM 469 Views
Well, no. Robbery accounts for a very small percentage of those attacks. Look at the chart. - 01/02/2010 11:50:39 PM 427 Views
I found the so-called Islamophobic reply... allow me to quote it in its entirety. - 01/02/2010 11:52:37 PM 447 Views
It's a valid complaint. *NM* - 02/02/2010 01:49:08 AM 183 Views
Whose complaint is valid? - 02/02/2010 01:55:58 AM 417 Views
Yours. *NM* - 02/02/2010 02:15:01 AM 180 Views
I did note the rampant bias. - 01/02/2010 11:48:55 PM 524 Views
What about attacks on Iraqi police volunteers? - 01/02/2010 11:53:58 PM 434 Views
it only included attacks on American soil *NM* - 02/02/2010 02:03:16 PM 190 Views
Most of the Iraq violence isn't against the foreign occupier... - 01/02/2010 11:54:44 PM 441 Views
Ahem... /\ /\ /\ - 01/02/2010 11:56:34 PM 474 Views
Dude, 46 seconds. I was typing it while you posted. *NM* - 02/02/2010 12:05:44 AM 169 Views
True, but I was referring to attacks on US soldiers. - 02/02/2010 01:47:55 AM 414 Views
That's still a bad benchmark - 02/02/2010 10:00:23 AM 506 Views
You would be very wrong - 02/02/2010 02:11:08 PM 469 Views
Um, since when is all Mid-East terrorism against foreign occupiers? - 02/02/2010 12:33:13 AM 594 Views
I would agree with this. - 02/02/2010 02:33:47 AM 515 Views
It was bound to happen sooner or later. - 02/02/2010 04:10:13 AM 541 Views
This is the only problem I have with "definitions" - 02/02/2010 04:51:00 AM 421 Views
You're conflating two types of fighters who shouldn't be, I believe. - 03/02/2010 06:16:21 AM 412 Views
I think you missed the point. - 05/02/2010 05:15:40 AM 417 Views
One of us did. - 05/02/2010 08:26:07 AM 591 Views
I'm not talking ETHICALLY or MORALLY - 14/02/2010 06:41:32 PM 425 Views
I was, or at least speaking legally. - 15/02/2010 06:54:50 AM 486 Views
Churchill's justification of bombings cited civilians as the targets, IIRC - 03/02/2010 12:46:16 AM 609 Views
I did say, "deliberately, " and for a reason. - 03/02/2010 04:23:44 AM 556 Views
Re: I did say, "deliberately, " and for a reason. - 05/02/2010 02:22:10 AM 760 Views
Re: I did say, "deliberately, " and for a reason. - 15/02/2010 09:46:48 AM 570 Views
Lame. - 01/02/2010 11:55:50 PM 406 Views
Demographics are the key, methinks. - 02/02/2010 12:20:46 AM 531 Views
WTF? Are these people serious? - 02/02/2010 02:19:05 AM 460 Views
Ah, good. I've driven you out of lurking. Now recommend me operas. *NM* - 02/02/2010 02:41:30 AM 173 Views
Huh? *NM* - 02/02/2010 02:03:24 PM 181 Views
I made a survey on musicals and operas on the board! - 02/02/2010 05:15:45 PM 391 Views
I agree with tom - 02/02/2010 02:54:53 AM 430 Views
So what? - 02/02/2010 02:23:42 AM 479 Views
Waco were terrorist? Do they just make this crap up? *NM* - 02/02/2010 02:00:40 PM 363 Views
leftist dhimmi allies... rofl - 04/02/2010 04:56:48 AM 416 Views

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