Only when confessed and not contorted into caricature.
Joel Send a noteboard - 01/02/2010 06:52:30 AM
But that's a rant for another person in another thread....
Not sure I'd call it a 'pro' observatory, our college of education wheedled the funds off of NASA then realized they had no idea what to do with it and basically unloaded it on us, we had either a 12 or 14" Schmidt inside a building with just a bit bigger than a shed with rotating dome.
Heh, I see. Still, that's a lot better than most folks could manage on a personal budget; I'd wager it was every penny of $10k, and probably closer to twice that. If it was Celestron, they don't make a 12" SCT (though they do make an 11" ) and I can't even find the tube online for <$5k (marked down from >$8k in one case. ) Obviously adding mounts, tripods, motors and computer databases will push that substantially higher even before we start talking quality eyepieces and filters.
Of course most people with a few thousand bucks in their pocket who decide to burn it on a telescope get one of those wretched display piece with a wooden tripod all covered in brass. Which usually ends up sitting next to the table whose only purpose is hold some obsidian and ivory chess board they also never use.
My guess is a scope off ebay, a high quality one at least, would probably be in good condition, except for the eye candy types mentioned above you don't usually see expensive optics in the hands of people who actually would be selling it. The ones selling it probably really love astronomy and just upgraded or need the cash, rich types who got it for show and tell don't need to sell them.
I think you're generally correct; typically when you get to that scale and degree of interest it makes a lot of sense to sell your old one when you buy a new one because it takes a lot off the new ones pricetag, and you're not going to use your 9.5" SCT much once you unpack that 14" (this is one of the reasons I advise people to find out as much as they can about what they want BEFORE purchase, and then get precisely that or as close as they can afford so they don't buy a dozen telescopes over 20 years. ) Personally, I'm not sold on the 9.5" because it seems like a poor compromise for people who want >8" but can't quite get high enough for an 11". It's another example of what I said above: Don't upgrade one step at a time, go in leaps, because otherwise you end up paying a lot more money for marginal performance increases. My 4.5" reflector is a great scope and I love it, but if/when I buy the next one it'll be the 8" SCT, which is a whole other animal.
The main thing that makes me leery of buying an SCT on EBay is I have little more security than the sellers feedback history and (possibly) shipping insurance, and I remember the hell my mom went through with an insured candy dish that was about $20 and arrived broken. I don't want to play that game with $500 or more. Anyone going that route, however, should read the description carefully; sometimes it's a scope with motor, tripod and maybe even a computer. Others it's just a tube and you'll have to buy a mount, tripod and motor, and you may end up spending as much that way as you would buying it new, with less warranty and possibly a discontinued unsupported scope (I'd love to get the old C-8, but they were discontinuing it 15 years ago to make way for Nexstars, and now it's only available used. )
Brass is useless ornamentation, IMHO, but all I've heard is that wood>metal for tripods because it handles changing weather conditions better, doesn't expand and contract with temperature and humidity to as great a degree.
That may be the best description I've ever heard. Not everyone is great with precision engineering though; I fantasize about one of the huge truss reflectors you see in science mags, but it would be very easy to screw up assembly, and while $2000-$3000 is a steal for 2-3' of aperture, it's still a lot of money to leave on the curb for pickup.
Usually got that 'red light' button for the software so you can haul the laptop along, but I suspect I'd end up blinding myself trying to open up media player or decide to take notes in blinding white MS Word.
Yeah, if you've got a laptop it's totally doable (I don't, because I still feel I can get more computer for the money with a desktop, plus I hear laptops don't really have modular design, so you "upgrade" with a new one. )
I hear ya, man, believe me. We've still got multiple disk cases filled with 5.25" disks with everything from DOS 2.10 (my original OS) to Wordstar 3.0 to a copy of Norton Utilities that was so hard to find my parents had to go to their CS instructors house for it.
And, yes, I firmly believe the top telescope brands are tops for a reason. I much prefer Celestrons SCOPES; they're a little more expensive than Meade, but they also developed the process of mass producing Schmidt corrector plates that made them commercially viable. Meade basically "flattered" Celestron when they began using the same process, but while they are slightly less expensive I think Celestron still makes the better quality scopes. I generally prefer Meades eyepieces though; I don't know why, but they seem to be sturdier and perform better. IMHO, it's a big step down in quality to Orion, and I don't seriously consider anything less. Bushnell makes DECENT spotting scopes if you're on a budget, but anything more from them is throwing away money, IMHO.
It's very possible I mentally added $100 to the price of the binocular viewer, too; it's been about as long since I've price checked it as it has since you did, 'cos it always struck me as extravagant anyway. But then, once you have the motor and a Schmidt corrector plate most other things just leave me thinking That's money I could've spent on more aperture. Can definitely see how access to a pro observatory might spoil you a bit; maybe you can get out to Yerkes some time. As you may know, it's got the first of three telescopes Hale built that were, in succession, the largest on Earth until Keck was completed (and at 40" it's STILL the largest refractor. ) Ironic there are people who actually WANT to be in Iraq (though it seems pretty crappy in terms of elevation) but then, that's where astronomy began, right?
Not sure I'd call it a 'pro' observatory, our college of education wheedled the funds off of NASA then realized they had no idea what to do with it and basically unloaded it on us, we had either a 12 or 14" Schmidt inside a building with just a bit bigger than a shed with rotating dome.
Heh, I see. Still, that's a lot better than most folks could manage on a personal budget; I'd wager it was every penny of $10k, and probably closer to twice that. If it was Celestron, they don't make a 12" SCT (though they do make an 11" ) and I can't even find the tube online for <$5k (marked down from >$8k in one case. ) Obviously adding mounts, tripods, motors and computer databases will push that substantially higher even before we start talking quality eyepieces and filters.
As far as new ones go, my take is always the same: If you've got a decent sized motorized reflector now there's no reason to buy another until/unless you're ready for an 8" SCT, and no real reason for amateurs to get more unless they just have a few thousand dollars burning a hole in their pocket. It's too bad EBay's such a crap shoot, because you can often find an 8" SCT with tripod and motor for $500 or so, but wtf knows what condition it's REALLY in, or how it will arrive? I did see a good example of the price differences between various designs just now though: For what a motorized 8" SCT with database costs new, Orion will sell you a 14" Dobsonian. But you're really painting yourself into a corner with a Dob, and I wouldn't spend two grand doing that even if I could.
Of course most people with a few thousand bucks in their pocket who decide to burn it on a telescope get one of those wretched display piece with a wooden tripod all covered in brass. Which usually ends up sitting next to the table whose only purpose is hold some obsidian and ivory chess board they also never use.
My guess is a scope off ebay, a high quality one at least, would probably be in good condition, except for the eye candy types mentioned above you don't usually see expensive optics in the hands of people who actually would be selling it. The ones selling it probably really love astronomy and just upgraded or need the cash, rich types who got it for show and tell don't need to sell them.
I think you're generally correct; typically when you get to that scale and degree of interest it makes a lot of sense to sell your old one when you buy a new one because it takes a lot off the new ones pricetag, and you're not going to use your 9.5" SCT much once you unpack that 14" (this is one of the reasons I advise people to find out as much as they can about what they want BEFORE purchase, and then get precisely that or as close as they can afford so they don't buy a dozen telescopes over 20 years. ) Personally, I'm not sold on the 9.5" because it seems like a poor compromise for people who want >8" but can't quite get high enough for an 11". It's another example of what I said above: Don't upgrade one step at a time, go in leaps, because otherwise you end up paying a lot more money for marginal performance increases. My 4.5" reflector is a great scope and I love it, but if/when I buy the next one it'll be the 8" SCT, which is a whole other animal.
The main thing that makes me leery of buying an SCT on EBay is I have little more security than the sellers feedback history and (possibly) shipping insurance, and I remember the hell my mom went through with an insured candy dish that was about $20 and arrived broken. I don't want to play that game with $500 or more. Anyone going that route, however, should read the description carefully; sometimes it's a scope with motor, tripod and maybe even a computer. Others it's just a tube and you'll have to buy a mount, tripod and motor, and you may end up spending as much that way as you would buying it new, with less warranty and possibly a discontinued unsupported scope (I'd love to get the old C-8, but they were discontinuing it 15 years ago to make way for Nexstars, and now it's only available used. )
Brass is useless ornamentation, IMHO, but all I've heard is that wood>metal for tripods because it handles changing weather conditions better, doesn't expand and contract with temperature and humidity to as great a degree.
Not really sure why anyone would by a dobsonian, make one, sure, but buy one of them? Always look like someone couldn't decide if they were building a water heater or a cannon.
That may be the best description I've ever heard. Not everyone is great with precision engineering though; I fantasize about one of the huge truss reflectors you see in science mags, but it would be very easy to screw up assembly, and while $2000-$3000 is a steal for 2-3' of aperture, it's still a lot of money to leave on the curb for pickup.
Yeah, that's the thing, the software is great (Celestrons "The Sky" was my preferred retail one when I was "in the biz" ) but in the field it's only worthwhile if you have a laptop (not great for preserving night vision) or print out the charts in a redlight format. The one I linked has the standard skywheel on the front that you can set for time and date, but then you open it up and it has four pages of redlight maps for each season, a two page spread above and another below the ecliptic, with listings of coordinates and features printed below the maps in two columns. Also the first few pages were devoted to charts telling which planets were in what constellations for the next 5-10 years (hence mine is a little out of date, too, but it's easy to tell whether they were in retrograde and follow them through to where they should be now. ) It is laminated, 'natch. That, of course, seems to have gotten MORE expensive; we sold ours for $10 and even the fonts were the same, it just didn't have a company name on it.
Usually got that 'red light' button for the software so you can haul the laptop along, but I suspect I'd end up blinding myself trying to open up media player or decide to take notes in blinding white MS Word.
Yeah, if you've got a laptop it's totally doable (I don't, because I still feel I can get more computer for the money with a desktop, plus I hear laptops don't really have modular design, so you "upgrade" with a new one. )
Brand naming always kicks up prices, but for optics they usually deserve it, no Nike or Abercrombie Fitch thingy going on there. I don't know, I got so much astro-junk lying around I can pretty much come up with what I need, of course, I'm also used to having a laminator or atleast laminating sheets. Of course, I suppose the common sense thing to do would be to print a red light chart off then stick it one of thousands of document protectors I have lying around protecting manuals that were printed in 1990 for equipment that hasn't been produced in over a decade. I'm pretty sure if I finally torched all those old MS-Dos and Win95 manuals and such I could heat my house for a month.
I hear ya, man, believe me. We've still got multiple disk cases filled with 5.25" disks with everything from DOS 2.10 (my original OS) to Wordstar 3.0 to a copy of Norton Utilities that was so hard to find my parents had to go to their CS instructors house for it.
And, yes, I firmly believe the top telescope brands are tops for a reason. I much prefer Celestrons SCOPES; they're a little more expensive than Meade, but they also developed the process of mass producing Schmidt corrector plates that made them commercially viable. Meade basically "flattered" Celestron when they began using the same process, but while they are slightly less expensive I think Celestron still makes the better quality scopes. I generally prefer Meades eyepieces though; I don't know why, but they seem to be sturdier and perform better. IMHO, it's a big step down in quality to Orion, and I don't seriously consider anything less. Bushnell makes DECENT spotting scopes if you're on a budget, but anything more from them is throwing away money, IMHO.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Biggest and Brightest Full Moon of 2010 Tonight
29/01/2010 06:22:59 PM
- 799 Views
you will have to tell me how it was we are suppossed to get rain all night *NM*
29/01/2010 07:18:13 PM
- 279 Views
I thought it was looking pretty big and bright at 5pm today... *NM*
29/01/2010 07:20:28 PM
- 241 Views
The illusion always seemed pretty simply explained to me.
30/01/2010 03:02:05 AM
- 459 Views
I was, naturally, interested in seeing it. Clouds thwarted my plans.
30/01/2010 10:24:16 PM
- 648 Views
Re: I was, naturally, interested in seeing it. Clouds thwarted my plans.
31/01/2010 02:10:30 AM
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You'd be suprised how much you can see with "ordinary" binoculars.
31/01/2010 05:11:00 AM
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Likely wise, though it also reminds me of one those expensive addons I mentioned.
31/01/2010 05:16:56 AM
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Celestron sells a stereo bino set for $200
31/01/2010 07:38:33 AM
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Heh, it may have actually gone DOWN, I believe.
31/01/2010 12:49:15 PM
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Anemiconomy, I'll have to steal that
31/01/2010 02:03:12 PM
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Stealing my one liners is all the rage these days.
31/01/2010 02:38:54 PM
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Theft is flattery
31/01/2010 06:20:31 PM
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Only when confessed and not contorted into caricature.
01/02/2010 06:52:30 AM
- 525 Views
I feel your pain, people steal my jokes than give wretched deliveries
01/02/2010 09:04:25 AM
- 630 Views
At least they retain rather than perverting the sense.
03/02/2010 06:44:37 AM
- 1035 Views
Regrettably not
03/02/2010 02:31:56 PM
- 533 Views
Re: Regrettably not
15/02/2010 08:54:34 AM
- 478 Views
The two of you old farts should really jump ship to Slackware
15/02/2010 02:59:47 PM
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I should have moondog give me a Linux tutorial one day is what I SHOULD do.
15/02/2010 03:03:56 PM
- 422 Views