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But notice your perspective Brian... Jeordam Send a noteboard - 27/01/2010 11:08:52 PM
you're on the outside looking in. That doesn't make you impartial, but (and do not take offense at the term) ignorant. I'll explain.

As someone who considers himself an agnostic with strong atheist leanings...I find the idea that some all powerful all knowing being cares if I believe in him, talk to him, or worship him to be silly.


And that's a fair feeling to have. You find it silly. Why? Do you consider yourself so without worth that God wouldn't care about you? You've also touched upon one of the greatest mysteries in the Christian faith. Why does God love me? That is a question that has no answer this side of eternity. I can't answer it...and no one else can answer it either. It is something that I often think about...why me? I'm flawed. I'm damaged. And when it comes right down to it...I'm awful. Why does God love me? Why does God love any of us? Look at what we do to each other. I cannot answer why God loves us. I only know that He does.

And as far as organized religion goes...I find that more often than not they foster hate and anger much more so than almost any other subject. The idea that any one religion or set of beliefs holds a monopoly on the truth and that they actually know what some higher power wants us to think is just absurd to me. How many sets of the "one" truth are there out there? Dozens, hundreds even. I'd like to think that in the off chance that I'm wrong, and that there is some higher power, that he really isn't going to give a crap if I go and kneel for an hour once a week and try talking to him. I'd like to think that if there is some after life that all that is really going to matter is if I've led a generally good life.


So this is what I was refering to when I said that your viewpoint is not impartial but ignorant. You are looking at organized religion from the outside...as someone who doesn't believe, rather than someone who does. You are seeing how the person is behaving, not what they should be living. You are seeing the result of a flawed person who believes in something who doesn't always live up to that something. Does this make sense?

To use a common example...homosexuality & Christianity. Most see anger, hate, and other such negative emotions. They are apparent on either side through the words/actions of different individuals. Does Christianity espouse any type of hatred towards homosexuals? Certainly not. Everyone is loved by God, regardless of their actions. However that love isn't what washes our sins away (sins defined as thoughts/actions which God says we aren't supposed to have/do or not doing something we are supposed to do). As I said, it isn't God's love that washes away our sins, but its his blood. Jesus's sacrifice is what can wash away our sins. His love is what prompted His sacrifice, but ultimately its His sacrifice which must be accepted.

To bring this back around, when you see "organized religion" and the fostering of hate...you are seeing the still-flawed humanity & the belief system. Let me say it right out....every Christian is a hypocrite at some time in their life (and over and over again too). Why? Because we believe in an ideal that we can never live up to. None of us will ever be able to be like Christ here on earth. We will all fail. We all still have our human failings. Some Christians hate homosexuals & feel threatened by them. Some do not. Some Christians hate those of other faiths...while still others actively reach out and try and establish a dialogue with them. You have to understand that its not the failing of Christianity which you are seeing, but instead the failing of the individual that you are seeing.

As per the different faith systems and the "one truth" or the "one right answer". That's certainly a good question/debate. There are so many faith systems out there...which one is right? Which one do you choose? That's a question which can take either a moment to decide or a lifetime...or anything in between. All I can say is that study and reflection...not to mention talking about it...are key to figuring it out. But to prompt you along, it may be interesting to note that of all the faiths in world, Christianity is unique. Why? Because its the only faith which says that you cannot earn your way to heaven. Instead, heaven is a gift to receive.

People often say that they have lived a "good life". That if you've gotten through life not murdering someone, or robbing a bank, or raping someone...how somehow you've had a good life. There's not much I can really say to that. Contrary to many belief systems...and even to certain fantasy book concepts...light and darkness are not equal. Good acts do not counter bad acts. After all...how many good acts does one need to do if you accidently ran a read light and killed a kid crossing the street. Sure...your intent wasn't to kill the kid. Your intent was to get to where you wanted to go & not be inconvienced by the red light...or you just weren't paying attention and thus were behaving irresponsibly. How many good acts does it take to bring that child back or make their parent's pain stop?

I think that religions have plenty of good lessons to teach people, but I also think that organized religion creates more rancor and violence than pretty much anything else in the world. For something that is supposed to teach morality and love, I find that to be a rather odd thing.

We kinda talked about this already. But here's something for you to ponder. I don't consider myself in an "organized religion". Instead, I see myself as being in a relationship with God. Some may call it semantics, but they don't see my heart or how I consider it so different. I very much disagree with my church on many aspects, but I'm willing to chalk that up to personal differences in interpretation which can *both* be consistent with the Bible. (note that I'm not talking about those ideals which stand directly opposed to what the Bible says).

So many picture Christians as either being the dumb, Mid-wester hicks...or being those loud mouth, rude televangalists who spout off....or being just uneducated and ignorant of the world. I am here to type that I am none of those things. Those who are Christains are far more diverse than those catagories.

~Jeordam
ex-Admin at wotmania (all things wot & art galleries)
Saving the Princess, Humanity, or the World-Entire since 1985
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Anti-Abortion CBS Super Bowl commercial - 27/01/2010 05:35:37 PM 1817 Views
I think that its a fantastic idea... - 27/01/2010 05:46:17 PM 1084 Views
agreed... somewhat. - 27/01/2010 05:52:26 PM 1027 Views
See, that's the debate here... - 27/01/2010 06:03:01 PM 838 Views
depending on the developmental stage, an embryo might be nothign more than a clump of cells. - 27/01/2010 07:18:25 PM 717 Views
You make baby Allah cry. *NM* - 27/01/2010 07:58:01 PM 514 Views
was it the dog comparison? - 27/01/2010 07:59:22 PM 883 Views
Nah, Dog is God reversed, after all. - 27/01/2010 08:29:12 PM 836 Views
parasites! parasites i say!!! - 27/01/2010 08:37:53 PM 856 Views
yeah except islam allows abortion in certain conditions - 28/01/2010 05:43:29 AM 854 Views
Do those conditions include "I don't want a baby"? - 28/01/2010 11:52:24 PM 1070 Views
some scholars say yes, some say no - 29/01/2010 05:51:18 AM 966 Views
Shall we be technical.... - 27/01/2010 09:28:20 PM 845 Views
And since when are you a trained eye? - 27/01/2010 09:52:05 PM 953 Views
A valid question - 27/01/2010 10:07:16 PM 830 Views
Okay then, that's fair enough - 27/01/2010 10:48:10 PM 844 Views
If there's a chance the mother might die... - 27/01/2010 07:30:54 PM 908 Views
Which is why I'm against elective abortion - 27/01/2010 09:33:59 PM 862 Views
Then we are in accord. - 27/01/2010 10:00:32 PM 873 Views
That works.... - 27/01/2010 10:10:22 PM 872 Views
And I think that is wonderful. - 27/01/2010 10:33:05 PM 969 Views
I want to see an atheism Superbowl ad - 27/01/2010 06:21:02 PM 909 Views
Re: I want to see an atheism Superbowl ad - 27/01/2010 06:35:30 PM 875 Views
Go ahead and pay for one.... - 27/01/2010 06:37:18 PM 987 Views
- 27/01/2010 07:01:59 PM 910 Views
at your - 27/01/2010 07:03:39 PM 861 Views
how does atheism take anything away? - 27/01/2010 07:20:49 PM 892 Views
Exactly - 27/01/2010 07:29:49 PM 872 Views
Smiles.... - 27/01/2010 09:38:25 PM 841 Views
just because you believe in god - 27/01/2010 09:57:39 PM 736 Views
losing, not loosing *NM* - 27/01/2010 10:22:51 PM 523 Views
Re: Smiles.... - 29/01/2010 09:03:48 PM 815 Views
LOL It only "takes away" mental enslavement. - 27/01/2010 07:50:56 PM 865 Views
Who says? - 27/01/2010 09:42:07 PM 853 Views
You're not "open" to anything. - 27/01/2010 10:02:03 PM 992 Views
I don't need your sadness dude...or your pity. - 27/01/2010 10:19:43 PM 877 Views
Personally speaking - 27/01/2010 10:36:45 PM 906 Views
Although off topic that's exactly how I see it too. *NM* - 27/01/2010 10:43:49 PM 513 Views
But notice your perspective Brian... - 27/01/2010 11:08:52 PM 985 Views
Your argument assumes in the existance of the Christian God. - 27/01/2010 11:28:16 PM 842 Views
Because we're His children - 28/01/2010 01:08:20 AM 876 Views
My perspective as someone who is for the most part an Atheist? - 28/01/2010 01:13:02 AM 793 Views
You have a very odd and self-serving notion of what "open" is. - 28/01/2010 12:12:06 AM 4214 Views
Tolerance much? - 27/01/2010 08:11:12 PM 917 Views
I took care of that. - 27/01/2010 08:33:18 PM 897 Views
Don't read an emotion into that I didn't put into it. - 27/01/2010 09:44:37 PM 705 Views
Oh, well there are examples. Google those ads I mentioned - 27/01/2010 11:24:10 PM 709 Views
all athesim means is not believing in deities 9_9 - 27/01/2010 11:30:37 PM 712 Views
Fortunately, positivity doesn't appear to be the qualifying characteristic - 27/01/2010 08:26:28 PM 813 Views
Well there is a difference between... - 27/01/2010 09:47:36 PM 1010 Views
The fact is that it was a positive message, whether you agreed with it or not. - 27/01/2010 09:52:47 PM 872 Views
Says the Protestant. - 27/01/2010 11:22:05 PM 864 Views
What is the UCC? *NM* - 29/01/2010 02:59:07 AM 538 Views
United Church of Christ - 29/01/2010 02:24:11 PM 756 Views
I don't think it is the same thing - 27/01/2010 07:17:19 PM 724 Views
I wasn't making an argument- just that it'd be interesting - 27/01/2010 08:11:57 PM 703 Views
that I can agree with - 27/01/2010 08:27:30 PM 809 Views
Re: I think that its a fantastic idea... - 28/01/2010 03:36:11 AM 821 Views
Hey whatever they want to pay for - 27/01/2010 05:52:11 PM 908 Views
Hahahaha... I couldn't care less, but this line cracked me up - 27/01/2010 06:19:37 PM 903 Views
wow...I didn't even think of that... - 27/01/2010 06:39:04 PM 848 Views
Heh. *NM* - 28/01/2010 10:43:43 PM 525 Views
I think they need to treat all sides the same - 27/01/2010 06:49:47 PM 842 Views
agreed *NM* - 27/01/2010 07:15:48 PM 521 Views
this. *NM* - 28/01/2010 01:33:01 AM 466 Views
whether you agree with Tebow or not... - 27/01/2010 06:51:58 PM 876 Views
I don't think there'd be a problem if it wasn't the Super Bowl - 27/01/2010 07:35:18 PM 831 Views
The problem is the hyprocrisy of CBS. - 27/01/2010 07:56:58 PM 966 Views
Bingo. - 27/01/2010 07:58:01 PM 721 Views
And they claim this is the result of you liberal types pissing and moaning. - 27/01/2010 08:40:57 PM 805 Views
Yeah, I'm sure that's it. - 27/01/2010 08:44:26 PM 708 Views
"the buggery agenda" - 27/01/2010 08:47:28 PM 847 Views
I know, I loved it! I might start using that instead of Fagenda. *NM* - 27/01/2010 09:03:53 PM 536 Views
You might need to rework titles too. "Most Buggered", "Her Buggerness" - 27/01/2010 09:06:44 PM 981 Views
this commercial is only a big deal to those - 27/01/2010 07:59:27 PM 909 Views
I really, really hope a pro-choice group buys the next ad space - 27/01/2010 08:09:16 PM 971 Views
Replace Hitler with Ben Affleck and I'd help pay for it. - 27/01/2010 08:12:25 PM 719 Views
that's funny enough it'd pay for itself - 27/01/2010 08:13:31 PM 816 Views
But how would you folks argue on the internet then? I'd still have Stalin... *NM* - 27/01/2010 08:49:17 PM 497 Views
I'm sure people could think of something *NM* - 27/01/2010 09:00:23 PM 393 Views
LMAO! that would be awesome *NM* - 28/01/2010 12:02:25 AM 532 Views
The funny thing is - 27/01/2010 08:28:22 PM 1027 Views
Oh no you di'in't! - 27/01/2010 08:54:47 PM 634 Views
I had a similar thought... - 27/01/2010 10:17:15 PM 829 Views
*NM* - 28/01/2010 01:12:46 AM 475 Views
*brain explodes* - 27/01/2010 08:30:51 PM 739 Views
are your sinuses clear now? *NM* - 27/01/2010 08:54:18 PM 483 Views
Oddly enough, they aren't. - 27/01/2010 08:59:27 PM 886 Views
thats what you get for living in the hill country - 27/01/2010 09:10:09 PM 804 Views
Not my idea, and I'm working on it. - 28/01/2010 12:36:17 AM 835 Views
the super bowl is no place for political messages, no matter how thinly veiled. - 28/01/2010 05:15:13 AM 740 Views
Are you saying that CBS should be required to run an opposing ad? *NM* - 28/01/2010 05:19:39 AM 472 Views
if they are going to approve a political message, they should be required to air the opposite view - 28/01/2010 05:27:33 AM 738 Views
I'm pretty strongly pro-choice and even I find that silly. *NM* - 28/01/2010 06:55:37 AM 534 Views
What kind of ad would they run in response? - 28/01/2010 11:50:10 PM 866 Views
more like.... - 29/01/2010 03:20:24 AM 979 Views
The problem with Pro-Choice is... - 28/01/2010 02:12:13 PM 842 Views
Not really a fair comment - 28/01/2010 02:44:21 PM 824 Views
Re: Not really a fair comment - 28/01/2010 03:27:03 PM 938 Views
I can't see Youtube at work and am out the next couple of nights so I can't see it till the weekend - 28/01/2010 03:36:48 PM 710 Views
I know you were going to tell me that it was slanted... - 28/01/2010 03:57:37 PM 856 Views
That is unfair on me - 28/01/2010 04:18:07 PM 850 Views
Sorry...wasn't trying to be unfair.... - 28/01/2010 04:34:18 PM 878 Views
Apology accepted - 28/01/2010 04:52:39 PM 693 Views
...which is yet another argument for publicly funded healthcare - 28/01/2010 03:46:25 PM 720 Views
Re: ...which is yet another argument for publicly funded healthcare - 28/01/2010 04:03:46 PM 834 Views
An unfortunate choice of words.... - 28/01/2010 07:00:18 PM 711 Views
I don't think it's so much a matter of supplying misleading information, - 28/01/2010 11:07:24 PM 776 Views
Ah, - 29/01/2010 02:51:22 PM 820 Views
No. - 29/01/2010 06:10:47 PM 913 Views

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