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That's a long post... Legolas Send a noteboard - 08/01/2010 08:58:07 PM
Shame that so little of it was relevant to what I said. :P
I've certainly heard all the various theories one way or another, about the only one that really holds solid traction for me is that a non-homogenous culture has a much wider space between law and taboo, and therefore more crime. Regardless, while I don't like a lot of our laws and don't entirely approve of how we rehab or imprison people, the moral point remains, we must not change our laws for the purpose of decreasing the prisoner population. Laws should exist because they are moral, not convenient. "There'd be a lot less people in prison if X was legal" is an argument which holds no water with me. I think pot should be legal, maybe other drugs too, the effect on the number of prisoners or the advantages of being able to tax it are, to me, BS arguments.

I couldn't disagree more. Morality is not much of a basis for laws or policy, particularly since morality has a way of being different for different people. To go with your example of drug legalization, the effect on the number of prisoners and advantages of taxation are of course not the only arguments, and are far less important than public health considerations - after all, no sane person wants to legalize heroin. But they are two very important arguments all the same, certainly more important than some vague notion of whether drugs are good or bad.

For your whole not-very-relevant part in the middle: I find it rather ironic that you mention the example of people not wanting to see library hours cut out of principle despite it being wasteful, and generally claim to advocate efficiency and spending based on the results, then turn around and advocate even more jails and police despite the rather damning figures indicating you already have way too many of them. Your point about how sometimes double the expenditure only yields a 50% increase in results works in the other direction too, you know: halve your prison budget and the results will be much more than half as good. Perhaps even better if you spent the saved money in a more useful way.
How often do we double the expenditure for one service only to basically get a 50% or so increase in result? Is it worth it? Maybe, I know the rationale we use, that kid who didn't have a library and didn't have a biology class also didn't invent the cure for AIDS. But maybe he did have those then got shot on the way to school because we didn't have enough police, or died of injuries because the taxes were so high he didn't maintain his car properly and got in an accident, and the money that paid for his education didn't pay for our hospitals and the doctors didn't save him on the operating table. It's a balance thing, and where prisons are concerned, while I agree we have too many people in jail, I more tend to think we just don't turn them right... starting from the core assumption that sticking people away from potential victims by sticking them with a lot of other criminals. This, to me, has always seemed about as logical as trying to cure sex addicts by sticking them all in a room together. It's also a better case for decentralization, because in that model you get to see more variety in systems and people don't have to fight as hard to try out new ideas, and goods ideas when tried out tend to win. IT is far harder to see this when things are centralized.

How you treat prisoners and how you could maybe decrease the chances of recidivism of criminals in prison are important points, too, but the disparity in the rate is so vast that the conclusion you're just throwing way too many folks in prison who never should be there in the first place is inescapable. The fact that some of those people then get into contact with gangs or worse criminals and leave prison worse than they came in, is merely an additional consequence of that main issue, it's not the main issue by itself.
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Moderates, Idiots, Apathy, and Mass Hysteria – A post-holiday rant - 06/01/2010 04:51:41 PM 1071 Views
I generally agree with you - 06/01/2010 06:10:45 PM 494 Views
Re: I generally agree with you - 06/01/2010 07:11:22 PM 511 Views
you should sneer at asprin anyways *NM* - 06/01/2010 07:55:29 PM 208 Views
It's the whole 'natural' thingy... - 06/01/2010 08:14:45 PM 403 Views
if there was a berry i could stick up my nose... - 06/01/2010 08:17:00 PM 537 Views
When spring rolls around again I'd probably join you - 06/01/2010 08:42:05 PM 420 Views
well, just as a note to life expectency - 06/01/2010 09:55:12 PM 411 Views
Re: well, just as a note to life expectency - 07/01/2010 05:30:41 PM 555 Views
I don't believe we can say either way at the moment - 08/01/2010 08:40:30 PM 432 Views
I dunno, I tend to prefer moderates above partisans. - 06/01/2010 06:29:27 PM 523 Views
That's not really a moderate though - 06/01/2010 06:51:05 PM 513 Views
Re: That's not really a moderate though - 07/01/2010 11:10:17 PM 628 Views
Re: That's not really a moderate though - 08/01/2010 07:26:14 PM 589 Views
This was a fun post to read. - 06/01/2010 07:52:46 PM 473 Views
One tries one's best - 06/01/2010 08:28:08 PM 558 Views
Jindal is well meaning, but he's a horrible governor. - 06/01/2010 09:29:57 PM 416 Views
So I presume he is republican? - 06/01/2010 09:56:42 PM 483 Views
He was seriously talked around for the 2012 pres bid - 07/01/2010 01:05:35 AM 524 Views
you're not wrong - 07/01/2010 01:11:17 AM 430 Views
It sounds harsh but sometimes cutbacks help - 07/01/2010 02:58:24 AM 622 Views
it's more a matter of the degree - 07/01/2010 05:07:18 AM 449 Views
That's true, but as LL said, the balance is completely off. - 07/01/2010 05:30:56 AM 440 Views
Re: That's true, but as LL said, the balance is completely off. - 07/01/2010 06:18:08 AM 473 Views
that would actually be quite interesting - 07/01/2010 06:26:36 AM 392 Views
But you already have insane amounts of people in jail. - 07/01/2010 11:22:19 PM 458 Views
The higher crime rate in the US is something of a different issue - 08/01/2010 08:26:00 PM 643 Views
That's a long post... - 08/01/2010 08:58:07 PM 648 Views
I agree. *NM* - 07/01/2010 01:18:06 AM 219 Views
Huh. That wasn't offensive. It was interesting. *NM* - 06/01/2010 10:48:17 PM 205 Views
muon, proton, and moron? Lol. *NM* - 07/01/2010 01:22:19 AM 382 Views
I enjoyed your post, except for one part. - 07/01/2010 01:23:09 AM 581 Views

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