But it's late at night and I can't sleep, so I'm going through old MB posts to see if there's anything interesting I missed while I wasn't paying attention last week, so here's some answers.
I did some googling for you (told ya, late at night, can't sleep...) and found the following relevant passages on the Border Agency's website:
"If you have a right to live the in the United Kingdom, your family may join you. Your family is defined as:
* your spouse or civil partner;
* children or grandchildren of you, your spouse or your civil partner who are under 21 years of age or who are dependent upon you; and
* the parents or grandparents of you, your spouse or your civil partner."
"Family members who are not EEA or Swiss nationals
If your family members are not EEA or Swiss nationals and they are coming to live with you permanently or on a long-term basis, they will need to apply for an EEA family permit before coming to the United Kingdom. The EEA family permit is similar to a visa and is issued by Visa Services. Your family members should apply for an EEA family permit at their nearest British diplomatic post."
Which seems to suggest to me that if Paul were to come and live in the UK, you could get an EEA family permit to live with him if you were in some form of legal partnership with him, without first having to live in Belgium.
As other people have said, there's a number of grants specifically for Americans wanting to study in the UK, and you have nothing to lose applying for one of those. Also, there is a law that says that if you are an American and graduate from a UK university (for example, from a one year MA degree) you may then remain in the country for an additional year and look for a job. If you find one, you can then apply for a work visa. An American friend of mine took advantage of that after her MA. You'd have to check it still exists (this was two years ago) but if you could do that, you'd only have to find one year's tuition.
Well, it was a lot simpler for me, moving from one EU country to another. I don't even need a visa. I just notified the town council in my old home town I was leaving the country, they gave me a form, and that was that.
Not reallya pplicable...
Well, moving costs were fairly low because my parents drove me and my stuff across by car, so really it was just petrol and buying new things I'd need to take care of myself (like cutlery and pots and pans and such) because I was moving straight from my parents' house.
Life itself wasn't too different. Some things in the UK are maddeningly frustrating (Camilla says the banks are nuts. She speaks truth. Don't get me started.) but mostly it's superficial stuff: you get used to food that is slightly different, traditions that are slightly different, whatever, much quicker than you'd think. Being far from my family and friends back home was....not so much difficult, I'm a fairly independant sort of person, but it was kinda scary to think that everyone I'd ever known was now 1000 miles away. It was more of a mental thing than anything else though; if something happened that I'd need to be home for I can make it there in about 12 hours provided I can get a flight, and if I just need to talk to my mum or a friend, I can phone them.
I loaded my dad's car as full of stuff as it'd go But, seriously, take as little with you as you can, if you're crossing an ocean. Take your clothes, take the books you cannot live without, take things you are emotionally attached to like pictures, trinkets, jewellery, etc, and leave everything else. If you have relatives or friends with some attic space, store stuff you don't immediately need but that you're reluctant to get rid of and bring it across piecemeal over the years on visits home. Shipping furniture across the ocean is time consuming and inordinately expensive; you're much better off selling it and using the proceeds to buy new ones once you're here. I know someone who's just done a transatlantic move in the opposite direction and he briefly considered actually shipping a lot of his stuff by boat. Then he got a quote from a shipping company, nigh on had a heart attack, and decided against it.
I went into university halls, so it wasn't a problem for me. You can do just about all this stuff online though these days, so the only thing you're giving up is the ability to physically look around a place and meet potential flatmates. However if you were going to Edinburgh, I'm sure that one of the rafonauts there would be willing to view a flat on your behalf to make sure the roof doesn't leak, there's no vermin problem, and the landlord isn't a crazy old man with a shotgun. Sign a short lease, then if you hate it you can always move out after six months.
I didn't, and honestly, these days with all the information you need out there on the 'net, I don't think it's worth it. You can educate yourself about just about anything.
The banks are insane, the bureaucracy will make you want to scream on a pretty much weekly basis, and no one in this damn country seems to know how to say 'no' - except the bureaucrats, who seem to default to 'no, the totally reasonable thing you want from me is impossible' even when 'yes, of course I can help you' would make more sense. All of these things, I had to learn the hard way
I was fluent for most intents and purposes when I moved. I had a fairly strong accent, I very occasionally had to ask what a particularly obscure or slang word meant, and although my English was entirely technically correct it clearly sounded like the English of someone who learned it as a second language. These days people can't tell I'm not a native unless I tell them - or so I'm told. Didn't take that long.
Mayonnaise. British mayonnaise is vile, acidic stuff that doesn't deserve the name. Also liquorice and biscuits that don't involve any ginger. No idea what their obsession with the stuff is. The meat is also less lean than I'm used to, which bothers me because I'm fussy.
No one talks to strangers here, which still strikes me as odd. If you're going to be sat next to someone for a five hour train journey, you might as well talk to them. Also, my British friends tell me I'm very blunt. Maybe I am, the Dutch do have a bit of a reputation for extreme directness Most people seem to find it refreshing though. I've never had any friends be angry with me because I told them that I didn't want to go to the pub because I did not feel like it and just needed a quiet night in; everyone's always understood. But then at the same time, these same people, in the same situation, might well go anyway because they don't want to say no...I don't get it.
That is a really tough question. I have issues with the idea of marriage at what I consider a young age. I think I'm too young to be married, and I'm 24, which many would consider a perfectly reasonable age; I'm already living with my partner - what difference would the bit of paper make? On the other hand, the practical differences it makes could be a reason to marry for me; we don't own any property but if we did neither of us would want that to be something only one of us owned and had any right to if anything bad should happen. In your hypothetical situation, I'd think about it long and hard; I'd ask myself: what if it didn't work out, could I deal with the idea of divorcing, rather than just 'splitting up'? If you can look at a civil marriage as simply a means to an end (ie, a way for you to be together without visa requirements standing in the way), then go for it. If not...then maybe not.
Er... okay, as the title indicates, this is a rather huge subject to tackle, and I hardly know where to begin. I am mainly looking for advice from people who have done this (and there's a good chance this conversation will move into NB exchanges if people are willing).
My situation is thus: I am an American citizen hoping to move, ultimately, to the UK - ideally to the wotmania capital of the world, Edinburgh. Thing is, my connection to Europe lives in Belgium, not Scotland.
As I understand it, there are three basic ways of obtaining a visa to live in another country:
A) Work visa.
(Not really likely because the employer has to sponsor you, and I am not a professional right now. I would have to find an international company with a strong base in Edinburgh, then hope that they eventually offered me a position something there. Could literally take five years or so. Not willing to wait that long, but very willing to take this route if someone can suggest other ways to make it work.)
B) Fiance visa.
I did some googling for you (told ya, late at night, can't sleep...) and found the following relevant passages on the Border Agency's website:
"If you have a right to live the in the United Kingdom, your family may join you. Your family is defined as:
* your spouse or civil partner;
* children or grandchildren of you, your spouse or your civil partner who are under 21 years of age or who are dependent upon you; and
* the parents or grandparents of you, your spouse or your civil partner."
"Family members who are not EEA or Swiss nationals
If your family members are not EEA or Swiss nationals and they are coming to live with you permanently or on a long-term basis, they will need to apply for an EEA family permit before coming to the United Kingdom. The EEA family permit is similar to a visa and is issued by Visa Services. Your family members should apply for an EEA family permit at their nearest British diplomatic post."
Which seems to suggest to me that if Paul were to come and live in the UK, you could get an EEA family permit to live with him if you were in some form of legal partnership with him, without first having to live in Belgium.
C) Studying abroad.
(Tough. My academic standing could be better... but more importantly, I don't have the money to pay for tuition over there. How do British universities handle grad students? Is there a tuition waiver/stipend, or is that only for citizens?)
As other people have said, there's a number of grants specifically for Americans wanting to study in the UK, and you have nothing to lose applying for one of those. Also, there is a law that says that if you are an American and graduate from a UK university (for example, from a one year MA degree) you may then remain in the country for an additional year and look for a job. If you find one, you can then apply for a work visa. An American friend of mine took advantage of that after her MA. You'd have to check it still exists (this was two years ago) but if you could do that, you'd only have to find one year's tuition.
Okay, so basically I would really like to hear about people's different experiences with each of these three options. Or, if they found another way, obviously I want to hear that too.
In survey form:
1) Have you ever done this? If so, which way did you go?
Well, it was a lot simpler for me, moving from one EU country to another. I don't even need a visa. I just notified the town council in my old home town I was leaving the country, they gave me a form, and that was that.
If not, would you consider it? - and skip to question 9, please.
2) How long did the process take you, from start to finish? (Let's say that finish = spouse visa or some other form of semi-permanent resident standing.)
Not reallya pplicable...
3) How much, roughly, did it cost you?
Well, moving costs were fairly low because my parents drove me and my stuff across by car, so really it was just petrol and buying new things I'd need to take care of myself (like cutlery and pots and pans and such) because I was moving straight from my parents' house.
4) What was the most difficult part about adjusting to life in a foreign country?
Life itself wasn't too different. Some things in the UK are maddeningly frustrating (Camilla says the banks are nuts. She speaks truth. Don't get me started.) but mostly it's superficial stuff: you get used to food that is slightly different, traditions that are slightly different, whatever, much quicker than you'd think. Being far from my family and friends back home was....not so much difficult, I'm a fairly independant sort of person, but it was kinda scary to think that everyone I'd ever known was now 1000 miles away. It was more of a mental thing than anything else though; if something happened that I'd need to be home for I can make it there in about 12 hours provided I can get a flight, and if I just need to talk to my mum or a friend, I can phone them.
5) How did you go about moving your possessions?
I loaded my dad's car as full of stuff as it'd go But, seriously, take as little with you as you can, if you're crossing an ocean. Take your clothes, take the books you cannot live without, take things you are emotionally attached to like pictures, trinkets, jewellery, etc, and leave everything else. If you have relatives or friends with some attic space, store stuff you don't immediately need but that you're reluctant to get rid of and bring it across piecemeal over the years on visits home. Shipping furniture across the ocean is time consuming and inordinately expensive; you're much better off selling it and using the proceeds to buy new ones once you're here. I know someone who's just done a transatlantic move in the opposite direction and he briefly considered actually shipping a lot of his stuff by boat. Then he got a quote from a shipping company, nigh on had a heart attack, and decided against it.
6) How did you go about finding a place to live when the desired city/location was many miles away?
I went into university halls, so it wasn't a problem for me. You can do just about all this stuff online though these days, so the only thing you're giving up is the ability to physically look around a place and meet potential flatmates. However if you were going to Edinburgh, I'm sure that one of the rafonauts there would be willing to view a flat on your behalf to make sure the roof doesn't leak, there's no vermin problem, and the landlord isn't a crazy old man with a shotgun. Sign a short lease, then if you hate it you can always move out after six months.
7) Did you invest in any kind of professional assistance? (Immigration lawyer, accountant, moving company...) Do you think that was worth the extra costs?
I didn't, and honestly, these days with all the information you need out there on the 'net, I don't think it's worth it. You can educate yourself about just about anything.
8 ) What's one thing you really, really wish someone had told you ahead of time?
The banks are insane, the bureaucracy will make you want to scream on a pretty much weekly basis, and no one in this damn country seems to know how to say 'no' - except the bureaucrats, who seem to default to 'no, the totally reasonable thing you want from me is impossible' even when 'yes, of course I can help you' would make more sense. All of these things, I had to learn the hard way
9) If you moved to a country with a language different from your mother tongue, how long did it take to achieve fluency? (And what level of proficiency did you start with?) - Am happy to hear answers from people who have just studied or lived abroad for a bit, too.
I was fluent for most intents and purposes when I moved. I had a fairly strong accent, I very occasionally had to ask what a particularly obscure or slang word meant, and although my English was entirely technically correct it clearly sounded like the English of someone who learned it as a second language. These days people can't tell I'm not a native unless I tell them - or so I'm told. Didn't take that long.
10) Which domestic products do you miss the most when traveling or away from home?
Mayonnaise. British mayonnaise is vile, acidic stuff that doesn't deserve the name. Also liquorice and biscuits that don't involve any ginger. No idea what their obsession with the stuff is. The meat is also less lean than I'm used to, which bothers me because I'm fussy.
11) Which more intangible things do you miss, if anything? (For example: climate, or a general sense of space, or social norms, like the basic level of friendliness between strangers.)
No one talks to strangers here, which still strikes me as odd. If you're going to be sat next to someone for a five hour train journey, you might as well talk to them. Also, my British friends tell me I'm very blunt. Maybe I am, the Dutch do have a bit of a reputation for extreme directness Most people seem to find it refreshing though. I've never had any friends be angry with me because I told them that I didn't want to go to the pub because I did not feel like it and just needed a quiet night in; everyone's always understood. But then at the same time, these same people, in the same situation, might well go anyway because they don't want to say no...I don't get it.
12) This is kind of a fun hypothetical question. Let's say you're romantically involved with someone, but you haven't been able to live together long term because you are separated by geography. The simplest way to fix this is to get engaged and have a civil ceremony for marriage. But, you've always been of the opinion that people should live together (ideally for a good long time) before getting married. Would you go for it, or would you back away slowly from the insanity?
That is a really tough question. I have issues with the idea of marriage at what I consider a young age. I think I'm too young to be married, and I'm 24, which many would consider a perfectly reasonable age; I'm already living with my partner - what difference would the bit of paper make? On the other hand, the practical differences it makes could be a reason to marry for me; we don't own any property but if we did neither of us would want that to be something only one of us owned and had any right to if anything bad should happen. In your hypothetical situation, I'd think about it long and hard; I'd ask myself: what if it didn't work out, could I deal with the idea of divorcing, rather than just 'splitting up'? If you can look at a civil marriage as simply a means to an end (ie, a way for you to be together without visa requirements standing in the way), then go for it. If not...then maybe not.
Thank you so much, in advance, to anyone who answers. I know I'm not the only Rafonaut who will benefit from your replies.
Jennifer
Mornings are still not for me.
Mornings are still not for me.
/survey: moving across the ocean & international borders. 12 easy questions. (...yes, am joking.)
28/11/2009 04:27:21 AM
- 578 Views
Answers, of a kind.
28/11/2009 12:48:34 PM
- 540 Views
Re: Answers, of a kind.
28/11/2009 05:48:04 PM
- 497 Views
Re: Answers, of a kind.
28/11/2009 07:12:08 PM
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Re: Answers, of a kind.
30/11/2009 02:12:08 AM
- 468 Views
Generally quite true, but let me add one or two qualifications.
30/11/2009 02:21:33 AM
- 449 Views
Here's that ranking, if you're curious.
30/11/2009 02:27:37 AM
- 570 Views
Re: Generally quite true, but let me add one or two qualifications.
30/11/2009 02:53:48 AM
- 467 Views
Very late answers
05/12/2009 03:14:27 AM
- 604 Views