Compared to telling the EPA to alter or even not publish scientific studies the Bush administration didn't like, playing with data so it doesn't look like the warming is increasing AS MUCH is small potatoes. Which is basically the reason Christie Todd-Whitman resigned as EPA Chairman.
Let's be clear: IMHO monkeying with data so it looks more compelling is wretched science and damages the credibility of scientists doing it, no argument. And that's not only a liberal saying it, but I'm paraphrasing Nate Silver at FiveThirtyEight when I do it, and he's pretty far left, too (if you hit the site he actually has a copy of the memo in question posted for context. ) However, just because one Canadian is convicted of murder doesn't mean someone can say, "SEE?!!! I've told you for YEARS all the Canadians were killers, but no one believed me: Now there's IRREFUTABLE PROOF1111" Not to mention that when he's talking about "hid[ing] the decline" they're not talking about a decline in TEMPERATURES, but in the RATE at which temperatures naetheless continued to RISE in the period they studied. You can make a very good case that they fudged the numbers to overstate their case for global warming, because it seems like in that one case they did, and it's deplorable. You cannot make the case global warming isn't happening in the long term, and it's hard to take seriously anyone who does.
And... global temperatures falling for eleven years? Either you're wrong or NASA is, and I'm betting on you; they have more corroborating evidence then you've presented. It goes up and down, but the overall long term trend is up, and if you look at their plots of mean temperatures for given periods rather than against individual time points the line is a lot less erratic. And has a stronger upward trend. You're claims strike me as in the same vein as saying, "You global warming people are nuts; look how much cooler it is now than it was in June!" Unfortunately, Fall doesn't disprove global warming.
Let's be clear: IMHO monkeying with data so it looks more compelling is wretched science and damages the credibility of scientists doing it, no argument. And that's not only a liberal saying it, but I'm paraphrasing Nate Silver at FiveThirtyEight when I do it, and he's pretty far left, too (if you hit the site he actually has a copy of the memo in question posted for context. ) However, just because one Canadian is convicted of murder doesn't mean someone can say, "SEE?!!! I've told you for YEARS all the Canadians were killers, but no one believed me: Now there's IRREFUTABLE PROOF1111" Not to mention that when he's talking about "hid[ing] the decline" they're not talking about a decline in TEMPERATURES, but in the RATE at which temperatures naetheless continued to RISE in the period they studied. You can make a very good case that they fudged the numbers to overstate their case for global warming, because it seems like in that one case they did, and it's deplorable. You cannot make the case global warming isn't happening in the long term, and it's hard to take seriously anyone who does.
And... global temperatures falling for eleven years? Either you're wrong or NASA is, and I'm betting on you; they have more corroborating evidence then you've presented. It goes up and down, but the overall long term trend is up, and if you look at their plots of mean temperatures for given periods rather than against individual time points the line is a lot less erratic. And has a stronger upward trend. You're claims strike me as in the same vein as saying, "You global warming people are nuts; look how much cooler it is now than it was in June!" Unfortunately, Fall doesn't disprove global warming.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
No, I am sure global warming is just a myth. </sarcasm>
24/11/2009 01:23:50 PM
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That ice is not melting - everyone knows temperatures aren't going up.
24/11/2009 01:30:12 PM
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While I believe that the climate is changing
24/11/2009 02:10:53 PM
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You never deviate from serious and exact wording in your private e-mails? *NM*
24/11/2009 02:21:22 PM
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Climategate is a big scandal.....very damaging to the AGW kool-aid drinkers.
24/11/2009 03:53:27 PM
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Exactly; just look at these guys:
24/11/2009 05:38:33 PM
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Greenland was much less icy back in the days when it was first settled.
24/11/2009 02:29:50 PM
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Bingo - global temp goes up and down via variables way too complicated to know.....
24/11/2009 03:44:38 PM
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No one seriously argues against climate change. The myth is called the greenhouse effect
24/11/2009 02:31:30 PM
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Yes they do. Well, depending how seriously you take trzaska2000 and others of his ilk...
24/11/2009 02:53:33 PM
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I believe copy-right was aiming a bit higher than a specific person. You're not supposed to do that
24/11/2009 03:17:31 PM
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But I was just using him as an example - to show that some people who think global warming a myth
24/11/2009 03:27:13 PM
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I am not as crazy as Joel!!!
24/11/2009 03:48:33 PM
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That may be the first time I've seen an ad hominem against someone not present.
24/11/2009 06:13:29 PM
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trzaska is way beyond joel on the madness-meter.
24/11/2009 03:53:09 PM
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Please explain.....
24/11/2009 03:56:51 PM
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bull you're middle of the road.
24/11/2009 06:11:52 PM
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Define "middle of the road" then..... *NM*
24/11/2009 06:25:59 PM
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About a hundred meters to the left of you. *NM*
24/11/2009 06:59:49 PM
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I'd agree that you're middle of the road as far as policy goes...
24/11/2009 08:10:59 PM
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I never said anyone is crazy. That is up to individual rafonauts' doctors. *NM*
24/11/2009 04:02:43 PM
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You did open a helluva can of worms though, deliberately or not.
24/11/2009 06:10:57 PM
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I was ridiculing myself for pointing to you at that earlier post a few days ago *NM*
24/11/2009 06:22:04 PM
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Re: You're not supposed to do that
24/11/2009 06:14:58 PM
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I submit myself to your punishment
24/11/2009 06:24:26 PM
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For the record, I'm sorry I got so huffy over something I was fairly sure you didn't mean seriously.
25/11/2009 12:28:46 PM
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The greenhouse effect without with the global average temperature would be in the ballpark of -15C?
24/11/2009 03:24:40 PM
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Re: No one seriously argues against climate change. The myth is called the greenhouse effect
24/11/2009 06:09:20 PM
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Temperature down while CO2 increases for 11 years and counting, no can't be true....
24/11/2009 03:41:41 PM
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Re: Temperature down while CO2 increases for 11 years and counting, no can't be true....
24/11/2009 03:51:46 PM
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This was already throughly rebutted in your prior post. and you are still trying it? Sheesh! *NM*
25/11/2009 05:12:19 PM
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Temp is down since 1998.....this is a fact.....sorry.
25/11/2009 05:19:07 PM
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Again, this was ALREADY ADDRESSED in your prior post. Saying it over and over won't make it true. *NM*
28/11/2009 04:18:30 AM
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Funny how when they get caught cooking the numbers you libbers just make jokes.
26/11/2009 06:37:26 PM
- 381 Views