In this case my reading comprehension is more than adequate.
Joel Send a noteboard - 24/11/2009 09:16:39 AM
I'm arguing against expensive, media circus, drawn out trials in the United States where criminal procedure violations can lead to sentences being overturned. Our soldiers did not use those procedures and evidence was collected in ways that domestic courts would not recognize, but military courts would.
Did you read all of becks other link here? They plan to admit they did it and then try to rationalize it; how can anyone think that will harm US? When they admit to the bombing in open court pretty much any chance of overturning the verdict on any basis will disappear. Not that there's much chance of that anyway, but the thing so often forgotten is that the reason verdicts get overturned on "technicalities" is usually that law enforcement and prosecutors were so casually cavalier in their investigation, arrest, detention, interrogation and/or prosecution of suspects that they ruined a perfectly good case by presuming them guilty until proven innocent.
Hence my citation of OJ: Yes, I'm unhappy he beat the murder rap, because I think he's guilty as homemade sin, but I'm just as unhappy LAPD and Marcia Clark largely beat the rap FOR him. They had DNA evidence; they mishandled and contaminated it with other DNA. They had a glove from the crime scene; they didn't bother recording it as evidence until long after the crime scene had ceased to be secure. They had an experienced and intelligent investigating officer; his own former colleagues testified he'd used racist and bigoted language in their presence. That's precisely what I DON'T want repeated here, but this whole "now that we've apprehended the criminals let's execute them and justify it later" attitude is just a redux of that. We can't overplay our hand, but the contract can still be defeated if we break enough rules to get the whole thing thrown out entirely.
As to the other, soldiers are tried in military courts and civilians in civilian ones. If these people had been classified POWs I'd have no objection to a tribunal or even, given they were armed and out of uniform in enemy territory, summary execution as spies and/or saboteurs. Remember, I still consider the war in Afghanistan a perfectly legitimate war against a state furthering its ends through terror, and that puts Al Qaeda on the same level as anyone else operating on behalf of one nation against and within another. That's exactly what we should've done, but we haven't, though it's not too late if we're big enough to say, "we goofed" then send them off to tribunals and nearly certain execution.
However, we've gone out of our way to deny they're POWs while simultaneously denying them status as civilians; when it was learned the designation "enemy combatant" still didn't mean we could treat them as we pleased, we repeatedly redefined the term (even though it's already defined for us by treaties we've signed) until it did. If you want to classify them as soldiers or spies and treat them that way, fine; if you want to classify them as civilians and treat them that way, also fine. As others have noted, allowing "any person [to be] punish[ed] as a principal under this chapter who commits an offense punishable by this chapter, or aids, abets, counsels, commands, or procures its commission " means you can give money to some Muslim "feed the children" program and wind up in Gitmo if someone finds out later they've given any money to terrorism. And, assuming you ever get a trial, the burden of proof is on you.
Also, let's not pretend giving them civilian trials means they'll be released if acquitted. Jose Padilla had terrorist charges DROPPED but he'll be in prison till he dies. Despite being a US citizen. Under "PATRIOT" ANYONE can be held indefinitely without charge, and even if charged and acquitted by a tribunal (which they are not required to receive any more than a civilian trial) need never be released. They're not going to "get away" man. Barring an act of God (not self-appointed human agents of His) they'll be dead before the decade.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
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LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
No need to interrogate Osama bin Laden?
20/11/2009 12:48:27 AM
- 1061 Views
oO uhm, what?
20/11/2009 12:54:13 AM
- 544 Views
If they're tried INSIDE the US, then yes, they are entitled to due process.
20/11/2009 01:44:08 AM
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Yeah, a lot of people were fuzzy on that till this started.
20/11/2009 09:30:39 AM
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on the other hand, we're more than willing to take them out back with a confession.
20/11/2009 06:34:12 PM
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New York is now asking for $75 MILLION for the KSM trial
20/11/2009 01:43:26 AM
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If this trial were being held in any other country
20/11/2009 01:56:07 AM
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It's a terrible precedent no matter how you look at it.
20/11/2009 02:13:46 AM
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It IS a terrible precdent, hence you and others are citing it 65 years after WWII ended.
20/11/2009 09:23:45 AM
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Spare me the bullshit.
20/11/2009 01:57:16 PM
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I will if you will.
20/11/2009 02:55:30 PM
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No, you won't. You never will.
20/11/2009 06:14:30 PM
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You're putting your cart before your horse is the problem.
23/11/2009 05:40:46 AM
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No, that's not right. You don't read very closely.
23/11/2009 02:21:54 PM
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In this case my reading comprehension is more than adequate.
24/11/2009 09:16:39 AM
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You don't think this is a military struggle? Wow.
20/11/2009 02:52:26 PM
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Allow me to point out...
20/11/2009 03:02:33 PM
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That's the thing, they aren't a terrorist group
20/11/2009 04:54:31 PM
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It would help if you would offer any argument in favour of your stance.
20/11/2009 08:43:08 PM
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I only use the word army cause I can't think of a better one
21/11/2009 04:32:01 AM
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Military struggles involve militaries.
20/11/2009 03:23:14 PM
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Once again, bullshit.
20/11/2009 06:09:31 PM
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This is wrong
20/11/2009 07:41:35 PM
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We're a long way from the shore of Tripoli.
23/11/2009 05:59:19 AM
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Your little diatribe in the beginning only makes me glad...
22/11/2009 05:32:57 AM
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I understand your "jihadist narrative"
22/11/2009 06:36:41 PM
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No you don't
22/11/2009 11:16:18 PM
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Oh, so you know better than Army attorneys about Miranda rights?
22/11/2009 11:52:00 PM
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I can explain it to you right now if you want?
23/11/2009 08:21:48 AM
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Credible legal and moral justifications for not trying terrorists in civilian court:
23/11/2009 02:56:19 PM
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Re: Credible legal and moral justifications for not trying terrorists in civilian court:
24/11/2009 04:55:12 AM
- 661 Views
I'm glad that you will never be in a position where a decision you make can affect my life.
23/11/2009 12:27:35 AM
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Actually people of my thinking are already making decisions that affect your life.
23/11/2009 08:29:24 AM
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Please explain to me how military tribunals compromise my principles?
24/11/2009 02:54:18 AM
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And your little hyperbolic rant would make more sense if it were grounded in reality.
22/11/2009 11:47:17 PM
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Looks like we'll get a Not Guilty plea, and a defense focusing on condeming US foreign policy
23/11/2009 12:36:47 AM
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They'll publicly accuse us of tyranny and brutality in front of a jury and without our censorship.
23/11/2009 08:27:13 AM
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My main objection is the awful precedent set by trying prisoners of war here in America.
24/11/2009 02:57:13 AM
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"My main objection is the awful precedent set by trying prisoners of war here in America. "
24/11/2009 06:57:34 AM
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We've had Mohammed in custody for over 6 years...
23/11/2009 07:56:49 AM
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I've already responded to your absurd statements, but let me reiterate a few here
23/11/2009 02:59:09 PM
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And I've responded to yours
24/11/2009 04:57:58 AM
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It's not, at least for me, that we feel the civilian courts are inadequate
24/11/2009 05:28:51 AM
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Good analysis of the situation.
23/11/2009 08:17:01 AM
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It isn't about sending a message. It's about horrible war fighting strategy.
24/11/2009 02:59:31 AM
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No. It's about not using a horribly ineffective strategy just to send a message to terrorists.
24/11/2009 09:29:06 AM
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enemy combatants and terrorists
23/11/2009 08:03:25 PM
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They're not different because from the Third World, but because terrorists.
24/11/2009 08:09:13 AM
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