Re: I'd be more supportive of hate crime legislation as a whole if it made any real sense to me
Brian Send a noteboard - 24/10/2009 04:51:43 AM
1) Hate crime laws originated in response to groups such as the KKK (well technically dozens of groups that called themselves KKK or Klansmen in the 60s, the national organization of the KKK didn't really exist after the 40s). Pretty much the KKK had decades upon decades of immunity for no one was willing to prosecute and if you were willing to prosecute the jury had a very large chance of not convicting. Thus making it a federal issue very much reduce the corruption/intimidation the KKK posed at the time.
2) The idea of hate crime laws isn't just to punish the crime, but to also prevent intimidation.
Both of these are fine, and it makes complete sense. The KKK could do anything it wished and get away with it for a long time. My personal attitude though is that for it to be a hate crime it should be a crime committed in conjunction with a hate group. If it's just some drunk idiot that decides he wants to go beat up a gay man then he should be punished for being a drunken idiot. If he did it as a member of one of these hate groups though, then it should be treated differently. While the action may be the same, it seems the real goal of the legislation is to deter these groups, therefore why not make that a stipulation of the law for it to become a federal crime? The power of these hate groups have greatly diminished, and in this era of lightning fast news allegations of intimidation by hate groups are going to be brought to light swiftly.
3) Hate crimes laws have always been perfectly fine with equal protection. This is because they are affecting all races, religions, colors, national origins, and now disability, sexual orientation, and gender identity. If someone perform a hate crime targeting a man due to his Christianity it is just as much as hate crime if the person targeted was Jewish or Muslim. Same thing if a gay man targeted a straight man for he was a stupid "breeder" or something.
That's why the changes make sense to me, is that they are expanding the laws to protect the all the groups of people that face discrimination. The theory makes sense to me, but the actual practice thus far doesn't.
4) Due to past legislative efforts the FBI tracks hate crimes, both threats of credible violence and actual
There are a lot of those kinds of crimes, and those are only the ones that are reported. According to a couple criminal justice courses I took the real figure is probably double that, or more.
Matthew Shepard act passed
23/10/2009 07:54:07 PM
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Meh
23/10/2009 08:06:22 PM
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I'm sure Orwell would be intrigued by his own prognosticative abilities.
24/10/2009 12:52:24 AM
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Didn't we already slice crimes by degree of intention (e.g., murder vs. manslaughter) pre-Orwell?
24/10/2009 05:23:56 AM
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How about DADT, or employment non discrimination, or federal benefits for civil unions/marriages?
24/10/2009 01:23:06 AM
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See..this is much more important than Hate Crime Legislation, and it actually accomplishes something *NM*
24/10/2009 01:52:31 AM
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Agreed, but
24/10/2009 02:12:11 AM
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I'd be more supportive of hate crime legislation as a whole if it made any real sense to me
24/10/2009 02:22:46 AM
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I'm sure the law is not supposed to deter crime, but rather to ensure justice.
24/10/2009 03:49:58 AM
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Re: I'd be more supportive of hate crime legislation as a whole if it made any real sense to me
24/10/2009 04:07:52 AM
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Re: I'd be more supportive of hate crime legislation as a whole if it made any real sense to me
24/10/2009 04:51:43 AM
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Re: I'd be more supportive of hate crime legislation as a whole if it made any real sense to me
24/10/2009 05:02:27 AM
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Re: I'd be more supportive of hate crime legislation as a whole if it made any real sense to me
24/10/2009 05:27:35 AM
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So it's inherently worse for a gay man to get beaten up than a straight guy?
24/10/2009 03:45:43 AM
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Doesn't there have to be an indication ...
24/10/2009 04:33:49 AM
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Doesn't matter, Same crime, same punishment, with no extra preference given to anyone.
24/10/2009 04:48:22 AM
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All orientations are protected.
24/10/2009 05:17:55 AM
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yes and how many black men are sentenced for attacking white men?
24/10/2009 02:00:26 PM
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Minor point.
24/10/2009 04:46:25 PM
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well since almost everything he said turned out to be BS why not that too?
25/10/2009 02:36:25 PM
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