I love how even when people factor in cosmic rays the naysayers reject findings they dislike.
Joel Send a noteboard - 15/10/2009 05:07:31 AM
From the sound of things you should probably wait until 2050 for those "I told you so"s. The article notes some (probably most if not all reputable ones) researchers factor both cosmic rays AND oceanic temperature cycles (in addition to many other things) into their projections. Viewed from the perspective of oceanic cycles the question becomes not "is it hotter than last year?" but "it this cycle hotter than the last one. " In other words, if we accept what you're representing as a lethal argument, it simply means we should compare temperatures NOW to those in the late '40s and early '50s rather than to the late '90s. We can be in a local cooling cycle and still be be warming over all.
Not that that will make any difference to those convinced there's no such thing as long term global warming, anymore than research looking at cosmic rays but still concluding the planet is warming. Even when the research looks at the evidence they consider all important, if it doesn't match their preconceived conclusions it can't be evaluating the evidence correctly.
The thing is, reduced consumption, increased efficiency and renewable energy are all valuable goals in themselves whether or not the planet is warming. They just become that much MORE valuable if it is, but when people insist that it's not and we should therefore dismiss suggestions we reduce consumption, increase efficiency and seek clean renewable energy, it raises the question of what agenda of theirs makes those things so objectionable irrespective of global temperatures.
If you can repost, so can I. With that out of the way:
I'm really sick of all the skeptic sneers at the term "climate change. " If you don't like the term anymore than I do, go bust Frank Luntzs chops, because his was the Republican focus group that came up with it as a way to convince people global warming either isn't happening or was perfectly fine if it is occurring. Or, put another way, "climate change" is the result of the same kind of "the data conflicts with our indulgence so we're going to fish for ways to dismiss it" thinking displayed in the article. The irony is that "climate change" may be Luntzs most successful spin doctoring, but even HE'S on board with global warming now. What does that tell you about the accuracy of the vast majority of the science and its forecasts...?
If skeptics don't like the term "climate change" they should go ask the skeptic who created it why he did so. I believe you'll find it was because it's no longer possible to deny global warming is occurring and is increasingly difficult to deny it's a net negative, so the next step is to deny man plays a large role. Once the science and the catastrophes make that impossible, I imagine the next step will be "*shrug* Well, it's too late to stop it now, so we might as well enjoy life while we can; oh, WHY didn't we know sooner...?!!!" *vomits* While you're asking Luntz why he came up with the term "climate change" why don't you ask him why, despite gobs of money, he's no longer a skeptic (on this issue; he's still very much a Republican spin doctor. )
Not that that will make any difference to those convinced there's no such thing as long term global warming, anymore than research looking at cosmic rays but still concluding the planet is warming. Even when the research looks at the evidence they consider all important, if it doesn't match their preconceived conclusions it can't be evaluating the evidence correctly.
The thing is, reduced consumption, increased efficiency and renewable energy are all valuable goals in themselves whether or not the planet is warming. They just become that much MORE valuable if it is, but when people insist that it's not and we should therefore dismiss suggestions we reduce consumption, increase efficiency and seek clean renewable energy, it raises the question of what agenda of theirs makes those things so objectionable irrespective of global temperatures.
If you can repost, so can I. With that out of the way:
I'm really sick of all the skeptic sneers at the term "climate change. " If you don't like the term anymore than I do, go bust Frank Luntzs chops, because his was the Republican focus group that came up with it as a way to convince people global warming either isn't happening or was perfectly fine if it is occurring. Or, put another way, "climate change" is the result of the same kind of "the data conflicts with our indulgence so we're going to fish for ways to dismiss it" thinking displayed in the article. The irony is that "climate change" may be Luntzs most successful spin doctoring, but even HE'S on board with global warming now. What does that tell you about the accuracy of the vast majority of the science and its forecasts...?
If skeptics don't like the term "climate change" they should go ask the skeptic who created it why he did so. I believe you'll find it was because it's no longer possible to deny global warming is occurring and is increasingly difficult to deny it's a net negative, so the next step is to deny man plays a large role. Once the science and the catastrophes make that impossible, I imagine the next step will be "*shrug* Well, it's too late to stop it now, so we might as well enjoy life while we can; oh, WHY didn't we know sooner...?!!!" *vomits* While you're asking Luntz why he came up with the term "climate change" why don't you ask him why, despite gobs of money, he's no longer a skeptic (on this issue; he's still very much a Republican spin doctor. )
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Oh...by the way...we may have been wrong about that whole "Global Warming" thing
14/10/2009 03:23:53 PM
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This was posted on 10.10.09 by Trzkaska2000. 138 views. 15 replies.
14/10/2009 03:32:52 PM
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Your point being...? *NM*
14/10/2009 03:53:56 PM
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That your post is repetitive.
14/10/2009 05:33:05 PM
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No. I think my post is rather better. It has my priceless comments around the article.
14/10/2009 06:56:41 PM
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Your post is neither better nor worse. Same thing but reposted.
14/10/2009 08:23:55 PM
- 349 Views
They replied to someone else's post and viewpoint and insight.
14/10/2009 09:06:32 PM
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From your viewpoint. Not from mine. *NM*
14/10/2009 09:57:01 PM
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Perhaps. Either way, though, I'm egotistical enough not to care that it was posted elsewhere before *NM*
15/10/2009 03:45:14 AM
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In fairness, I only replied after you pointed towards that other thread in here.
14/10/2009 10:08:53 PM
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Within a decade, the North Pole will be ice-free during the summer
14/10/2009 03:35:31 PM
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That's strange, considering it melted less this summer than usual.
14/10/2009 03:55:28 PM
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I'm sorry but you are wrong. It is the third greatest melt on record.
14/10/2009 05:38:02 PM
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Who called it? *Double thumbs* This guy. This guy called it. *NM*
14/10/2009 04:13:43 PM
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Re: Oh...by the way...we may have been wrong about that whole "Global Warming" thing
14/10/2009 04:36:57 PM
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I registered it as a bug
14/10/2009 04:40:20 PM
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Possible Consequences of taking global warming seriously...
14/10/2009 04:37:32 PM
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Increased cost for everyone
14/10/2009 04:42:07 PM
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Increased costs?
14/10/2009 05:11:11 PM
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You misunderstand my position.
14/10/2009 05:23:29 PM
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greed
14/10/2009 06:45:35 PM
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That's not how things work.
14/10/2009 06:50:27 PM
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Then lets change the way things work. Not as if capitalism is required by the US constition.
15/10/2009 07:04:51 PM
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You are really dense if you believe that
14/10/2009 06:59:43 PM
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capitalists are the dense ones if they believe that it is even a somewhat good system
15/10/2009 07:11:47 PM
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Tell that to the unwashed idiots who believe you and ruin the world with another revolution. *NM*
16/10/2009 05:59:01 PM
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Capitalism is one of the great inventions of the West - and so is socialism.
16/10/2009 06:13:12 PM
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Welcome to Communism!
14/10/2009 09:45:02 PM
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communism is a system of government. SOCIALISM is an economic system
15/10/2009 07:01:16 PM
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The word communism can mean either political system or economic system or both.
15/10/2009 07:25:59 PM
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Cap and trade is an attempt to use the power of the free market - you'd think you'd appreciate that.
14/10/2009 10:24:46 PM
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Cap and trade is something only big companies can really afford
15/10/2009 03:52:52 AM
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"Whoever lays his hand on me to govern me is a usurper and tyrant, and I declare him my enemy."
15/10/2009 04:20:21 AM
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Other Possible Consequences of taking global warming seriously...
14/10/2009 06:33:38 PM
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+1
14/10/2009 06:46:11 PM
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So you decided to ignore my response?
14/10/2009 07:02:01 PM
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No, I just think it's gonna pay off in the long run
14/10/2009 07:21:04 PM
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+ 1 I agree with you completely in here.
14/10/2009 08:19:45 PM
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So, I guess you are now a Catholic?
14/10/2009 09:49:21 PM
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I hope you're not suggesting the Global Warming is only a rallying cry for the Right?
14/10/2009 09:48:22 PM
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No worries, it's worth a second post!!! AGW is total BS.....
14/10/2009 09:39:20 PM
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I probably would have just responded if I had seen that you had posted
15/10/2009 03:54:29 AM
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I love how even when people factor in cosmic rays the naysayers reject findings they dislike.
15/10/2009 05:07:31 AM
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Well, it's good to see that some folks still actually follow science rather than politics
16/10/2009 05:04:17 PM
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