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I love how even when people factor in cosmic rays the naysayers reject findings they dislike. Joel Send a noteboard - 15/10/2009 05:07:31 AM
From the sound of things you should probably wait until 2050 for those "I told you so"s. The article notes some (probably most if not all reputable ones) researchers factor both cosmic rays AND oceanic temperature cycles (in addition to many other things) into their projections. Viewed from the perspective of oceanic cycles the question becomes not "is it hotter than last year?" but "it this cycle hotter than the last one. " In other words, if we accept what you're representing as a lethal argument, it simply means we should compare temperatures NOW to those in the late '40s and early '50s rather than to the late '90s. We can be in a local cooling cycle and still be be warming over all.

Not that that will make any difference to those convinced there's no such thing as long term global warming, anymore than research looking at cosmic rays but still concluding the planet is warming. Even when the research looks at the evidence they consider all important, if it doesn't match their preconceived conclusions it can't be evaluating the evidence correctly.

The thing is, reduced consumption, increased efficiency and renewable energy are all valuable goals in themselves whether or not the planet is warming. They just become that much MORE valuable if it is, but when people insist that it's not and we should therefore dismiss suggestions we reduce consumption, increase efficiency and seek clean renewable energy, it raises the question of what agenda of theirs makes those things so objectionable irrespective of global temperatures.

If you can repost, so can I. ;) With that out of the way:

I'm really sick of all the skeptic sneers at the term "climate change. " If you don't like the term anymore than I do, go bust Frank Luntzs chops, because his was the Republican focus group that came up with it as a way to convince people global warming either isn't happening or was perfectly fine if it is occurring. Or, put another way, "climate change" is the result of the same kind of "the data conflicts with our indulgence so we're going to fish for ways to dismiss it" thinking displayed in the article. The irony is that "climate change" may be Luntzs most successful spin doctoring, but even HE'S on board with global warming now. What does that tell you about the accuracy of the vast majority of the science and its forecasts...?

If skeptics don't like the term "climate change" they should go ask the skeptic who created it why he did so. I believe you'll find it was because it's no longer possible to deny global warming is occurring and is increasingly difficult to deny it's a net negative, so the next step is to deny man plays a large role. Once the science and the catastrophes make that impossible, I imagine the next step will be "*shrug* Well, it's too late to stop it now, so we might as well enjoy life while we can; oh, WHY didn't we know sooner...?!!!" *vomits* While you're asking Luntz why he came up with the term "climate change" why don't you ask him why, despite gobs of money, he's no longer a skeptic (on this issue; he's still very much a Republican spin doctor. )
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Oh...by the way...we may have been wrong about that whole "Global Warming" thing - 14/10/2009 03:23:53 PM 1208 Views
This was posted on 10.10.09 by Trzkaska2000. 138 views. 15 replies. - 14/10/2009 03:32:52 PM 419 Views
Your point being...? *NM* - 14/10/2009 03:53:56 PM 178 Views
That your post is repetitive. - 14/10/2009 05:33:05 PM 376 Views
I didn't see Traszka's post.. - 14/10/2009 06:34:05 PM 392 Views
Within a decade, the North Pole will be ice-free during the summer - 14/10/2009 03:35:31 PM 511 Views
what were the odds that they would have found anything else? - 14/10/2009 03:58:49 PM 414 Views
Re: Oh...by the way...we may have been wrong about that whole "Global Warming" thing - 14/10/2009 04:36:57 PM 424 Views
I registered it as a bug - 14/10/2009 04:40:20 PM 355 Views
I think it's been registered as a bug about 6 times now. *NM* - 14/10/2009 05:52:04 PM 175 Views
I personally did it four times. *NM* - 14/10/2009 11:29:53 PM 203 Views
Possible Consequences of taking global warming seriously... - 14/10/2009 04:37:32 PM 442 Views
Increased cost for everyone - 14/10/2009 04:42:07 PM 384 Views
Increased costs? - 14/10/2009 05:11:11 PM 429 Views
You misunderstand my position. - 14/10/2009 05:23:29 PM 419 Views
greed - 14/10/2009 06:45:35 PM 365 Views
That's not how things work. - 14/10/2009 06:50:27 PM 346 Views
Then lets change the way things work. Not as if capitalism is required by the US constition. - 15/10/2009 07:04:51 PM 331 Views
Good luck with that. - 15/10/2009 07:18:17 PM 439 Views
Welcome to Communism! - 14/10/2009 09:45:02 PM 341 Views
communism is a system of government. SOCIALISM is an economic system - 15/10/2009 07:01:16 PM 361 Views
I'm Canadian, actually. - 23/10/2009 11:08:08 PM 323 Views
it's about the science, for me. - 14/10/2009 04:46:09 PM 376 Views
Other Possible Consequences of taking global warming seriously... - 14/10/2009 06:33:38 PM 363 Views
+1 - 14/10/2009 06:46:11 PM 360 Views
So you decided to ignore my response? - 14/10/2009 07:02:01 PM 376 Views
No, I just think it's gonna pay off in the long run - 14/10/2009 07:21:04 PM 377 Views
+ 1 I agree with you completely in here. - 14/10/2009 08:19:45 PM 355 Views
So, I guess you are now a Catholic? - 14/10/2009 09:49:21 PM 422 Views
Bitch, please. - 14/10/2009 09:58:07 PM 406 Views
No worries, most catholics aren't even catholics..... *NM* - 15/10/2009 05:47:58 AM 136 Views
Precisely. *NM* - 15/10/2009 08:44:44 AM 229 Views
I hope you're not suggesting the Global Warming is only a rallying cry for the Right? - 14/10/2009 09:48:22 PM 389 Views
It looked like he was saying the opposite. - 14/10/2009 10:18:03 PM 355 Views
The ends don't justify the means..... - 14/10/2009 09:41:47 PM 402 Views
You missed my point... - 15/10/2009 04:18:11 PM 347 Views
- 14/10/2009 08:07:54 PM 356 Views
No worries, it's worth a second post!!! AGW is total BS..... - 14/10/2009 09:39:20 PM 484 Views
+1 *NM* - 14/10/2009 09:49:01 PM 166 Views
I love how even when people factor in cosmic rays the naysayers reject findings they dislike. - 15/10/2009 05:07:31 AM 440 Views
Well, it's good to see that some folks still actually follow science rather than politics - 16/10/2009 05:04:17 PM 422 Views
Well said, couldn't have said it better *NM* - 17/10/2009 02:27:14 AM 157 Views

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