Community Messageboard: He's hardly the first on point 3 - or very different from Sanders in that regard. by Legolas

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He's hardly the first on point 3 - or very different from Sanders in that regard. Legolas Send a noteboard - 10/05/2016 07:07:33 AM

View original postTrump is the first person to openly challenge (1) our open borders policy, (2) our imperial foreign policy, and (3) the implicit assumption that free trade helps America (or at least that somehow it's not hollowing out thousands of once thriving towns).

Hardly the first on point 1 or 2, either, though perhaps the first who made it to major party nominee.

View original postThe open borders policy has been pushed by an unholy alliance of neo-Marxists like La Raza who want to destroy all borders and certain business interests (like growers) who need labor below minimum wage. But the simple fact is that people who come here illegally are breaking the law. Trump is right when he says either we have a border or we don't.

There's a difference between stopping illegal immigration, and just expelling 11 million people.

View original postIn foreign policy, I think it's high time we stopped policing places out of some notion that we benefit when we dictate foreign policy and focus on how it directly benefits us.

Fair enough, but if anybody had any doubts left about Trump's utter inability to have any kind of coherent foreign policy, his hyped speech on the topic certainly set those at rest.

View original postWith respect to free trade, we really have destroyed millions of lives in the process of opening ourselves to free trade. The "giant sucking sound" Ross Perot warned us about has become a roar.

'Destroyed millions of lives'? Please. It's not a secret that free trade, while beneficial on aggregate, hurts certain specific groups. Making it more or less beneficial for everyone does require some redistribution, but is entirely possible. If America has a problem with free trade, it's not free trade itself but the way its rewards are distributed inside the USA: the big companies are massively undertaxed (in practice) on their immense profits, while the small ones are overtaxed, due to the high notional business tax rate combined with all the loopholes. And not enough is done to retrain those losing their job to globalization and get them back to work.

So really, if you're going to go up against the business establishment anyway, I'd say taxes are a better battle to fight than trying to make America protectionist, and poorer for it.

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Bernie's promises = $33 Trillion in new spending Anonymous2000 - 09/05/2016 09:12:09 PM 1028 Views

I saw that too... it was a pretty good laugh. Legolas - 09/05/2016 09:20:57 PM 583 Views

Trump and Sanders voters are different sides of the same coin. Anonymous2000 - 09/05/2016 11:32:36 PM 539 Views

I don't think that I can stress enough that I prefer Trump to Sanders. Tom - 10/05/2016 12:54:31 AM 554 Views

He's hardly the first on point 3 - or very different from Sanders in that regard. Legolas - 10/05/2016 07:07:33 AM 727 Views

You seem to default to the Economist's position quite often Tom - 11/05/2016 09:38:58 PM 657 Views

Well, great minds think alike and all that?

Legolas - 12/05/2016 12:24:25 AM 593 Views

I said it was a truism. Tom - 12/05/2016 03:45:39 PM 492 Views

And you don't think doctors and lawyers should be licensed? Tom - 12/05/2016 03:53:51 PM 476 Views

Doctors and lawyers, yes. Hairdressers or florists, not so much. Legolas - 12/05/2016 05:56:23 PM 730 Views

Your point on trade barriers is highly misplaced. Tom - 12/05/2016 07:03:05 PM 453 Views

I agree that free trade is less crucial to the US than to many other countries. Legolas - 19/05/2016 06:22:19 PM 506 Views

And do you know why we make so many trucks and SUVs in the US? Tom - 13/05/2016 07:52:31 AM 522 Views

Because you insist on driving in them even when smaller cars would suit your requirements fine?

Legolas - 19/05/2016 06:36:29 PM 520 Views

I have zero knowledge of the tax code. Ghavrel - 19/05/2016 03:22:47 AM 583 Views

Both terms imply error. Tom - 19/05/2016 05:15:20 PM 572 Views

Not errors as such - but suboptimal outcomes from a society-wide point of view, yes. Legolas - 19/05/2016 06:28:50 PM 494 Views

then you must be pleased to know that each has the same chance to be President this year moondog - 10/05/2016 09:33:33 PM 497 Views

A Democrat will sell you the shirt off my back. Tom - 10/05/2016 12:45:13 AM 524 Views

vote republican -- it's easier than thinking!

*NM* moondog - 10/05/2016 09:34:16 PM 240 Views

Vote Democrat - because we say so! gban007 - 11/05/2016 08:13:10 AM 488 Views

Do you see the irony of being the only person on this thread to reply with a slogan? *NM* Cannoli - 14/05/2016 12:02:00 AM 246 Views

And Trump things default on your debt such as Greece is a good thing. *NM* Roland00 - 11/05/2016 03:50:18 PM 194 Views

You think America is not going to default on its debt ? AgentApple - 11/05/2016 04:54:13 PM 503 Views

Of course it's possible. Legolas - 11/05/2016 06:29:31 PM 588 Views

I am not sure you understand how debt works for governments vs individuals Roland00 - 13/05/2016 06:30:36 PM 412 Views

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<quote id="290543">
<quote id="290541">Trump is the first person to openly challenge (1) our open borders policy, (2) our imperial foreign policy, and (3) the implicit assumption that free trade helps America (or at least that somehow it's not hollowing out thousands of once thriving towns).</quote>
Hardly the first on point 1 or 2, either, though perhaps the first who made it to major party nominee. 
<quote id="290541">The open borders policy has been pushed by an unholy alliance of neo-Marxists like La Raza who want to destroy all borders and certain business interests (like growers) who need labor below minimum wage.  But the simple fact is that people who come here illegally are breaking the law.  Trump is right when he says either we have a border or we don't.</quote>
There's a difference between stopping illegal immigration, and just expelling 11 million people. 
<quote id="290541">In foreign policy, I think it's high time we stopped policing places out of some notion that we benefit when we dictate foreign policy and focus on how it directly benefits us.</quote>
Fair enough, but if anybody had any doubts left about Trump's utter inability to have any kind of coherent foreign policy, his hyped speech on the topic certainly set those at rest. 
<quote id="290541">With respect to free trade, we really have destroyed millions of lives in the process of opening ourselves to free trade.  The "giant sucking sound" Ross Perot warned us about has become a roar.</quote>
'Destroyed millions of lives'? Please. It's not a secret that free trade, while beneficial on aggregate, hurts certain specific groups. Making it more or less beneficial for everyone does require some redistribution, but is entirely possible. If America has a problem with free trade, it's not free trade itself but the way its rewards are distributed inside the USA: the big companies are massively undertaxed (in practice) on their immense profits, while the small ones are overtaxed, due to the high notional business tax rate combined with all the loopholes. And not enough is done to retrain those losing their job to globalization and get them back to work.

So really, if you're going to go up against the business establishment anyway, I'd say taxes are a better battle to fight than trying to make America protectionist, and poorer for it. 
</quote>

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