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You realize those are two very different things. Legolas Send a noteboard - 05/05/2016 07:26:48 PM

View original postJust as he says, no one would expect the Kurds to have a one state solution with ISIS, now would they ?

Not with ISIS, but within Iraq or Turkey - sure. Of course the Kurds have every right to strive for the establishment of an independent state, like the Zionists did - but since there are other people also living in those lands, a solution is required that is also workable for those others.
View original postAlso, I find it peculiar that the very same people who support the migrants of the current crises, would not see how natural it was for Jews to immigrate to flee to their homeland, which was not really a politically existent entity for a very long time. I think that if they don't see it as such, it must be because they are cruel and hateful, I have no other explanation for it. I could understand Palestinians not seeing it as such, but not Europeans of any flavour, seeing as they were the instigators of said flight.

It's not really that peculiar - they support refugees who flee their country, but they don't support said refugees claiming another country as their own instead, unless they are welcomed by its existing inhabitants. It does not make sense to them that Palestinians should pay the compensation for European crimes.

This is basically what I was talking about earlier, the demand that people accept the basic tenet of Zionism - the idea that somehow the Jewish people has an eternal, inalienable right to Eretz Israel that trumps the rights of other inhabitants - as a starting point of the debate. That's a very ambitious and unrealistic demand, much more ambitious than simply requiring that people acknowledge and accept the current reality of Israel as a multicultural but at heart Jewish state in the Middle East.

I agree that supporters of a one-state solution face the extremely difficult task of explaining how such a solution could ever provide the security, comfort and peace of mind that the Israeli Jews must be certain to have in any acceptable solution.

I don't agree that they are anti-Semitic. Not unless they show that they don't care about said comfort and security, or in some other way display a disregard for Jews and their inalienable rights.


View original postI recall Camilla posting here a video of some French intellectual saying how 'creating' Israel was a mistake, after the whole Mavi Marmara peace flotilla incident. I assume the intellectual was Jewish. I found it so offensive I quit this site for two years. BTW, did you know some five of those Turkish peace activists had already been killed fighting for ISIS ?

I did not know that.
View original postDoesn't the fact that you would have leftists even in this site take the same position as people who later joined ISIS strike you as telling ? And I'm supposed to believe all the problems are because of settlements ? Or because of a wall that separates a few tens of farmers from their crops ? Nah. Settlements can be dismantled, it's already been proven. Lands can be exchanged. Some Jews can be left to live under Palestinian rule like Arabs live on this side. Sure, it won't be fun but some agreement could be made, like how Hong Kong was passed to China. I think the left is being intellectually dishonest, flinging at Israel everything it really hates about its own shortcomings, like a grownup man child still angry at his parents for not pushing him to excel at soccer (or something. getting late and I'm tired)

I don't think too many Europeans on the left, deep down, really believe that everything would be magically resolved if Israel just dismantled the settlements. But it keeps coming back to this question of different standards - they see Israelis as Westerners who should know better than to cling to their guns and religion and settlements, to paraphrase Obama, while the Palestinians as victims of Western colonialism get near-endless forbearance.

On the bright side, it seems inevitable that those views on colonialism, and the correspondingly low expectations towards developing nations, will fade away as the developing nations grow stronger and more self-confident, and as the West becomes more multicultural. Which in the long run should help to restore balance to views of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict - but by that time the situation on the ground may have changed a lot as well. For the better, I hope.

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The Holocaust, the Left and the Return of Hate - 04/05/2016 09:52:39 PM 1208 Views
The one state "solution" is either anti-Sematic or just very naive or uninformed - 05/05/2016 12:27:19 AM 658 Views
You realize those are two very different things. - 05/05/2016 07:26:48 PM 605 Views
Meh - 05/05/2016 06:32:13 PM 654 Views
Yeah - 05/05/2016 11:43:47 PM 619 Views
Uh. See, some of that, I would call anti-Semitic. - 06/05/2016 07:39:23 PM 565 Views
Don't care - 06/05/2016 09:48:23 PM 720 Views
I'm glad to hear you're not saying that. - 06/05/2016 10:20:25 PM 500 Views
Re: I'm glad to hear you're not saying that. - 07/05/2016 03:51:05 PM 604 Views
Care to expand? - 09/05/2016 01:46:01 PM 452 Views
Taking someone else's homeland for themselves - 12/05/2016 05:52:16 PM 474 Views
The Left seems perfectly fine letting in millions of refugees into Europe - 17/05/2016 09:44:20 AM 498 Views
When have I ever supported that? - 17/05/2016 12:20:53 PM 553 Views
I partially agree. - 17/05/2016 07:12:19 PM 468 Views
It was British land to do with as they pleased. The Ottomans lost WWI. - 19/05/2016 05:57:55 PM 547 Views
Fine, let's try this another way - 07/05/2016 11:06:16 PM 820 Views
Agreed 100%. - 08/05/2016 05:59:02 PM 538 Views
Okay, that's a useful summary. - 08/05/2016 10:15:51 PM 512 Views

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