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Read Lee stating his hatred of slavery AND secession, and love of the Union, if you do not Joel Send a noteboard - 30/06/2015 06:01:01 PM

He said slavery harmed whites and blacks alike; even went far as saying it harmed whites MORE. That depends on whether one thinks a person harmed more by learning immorality as a birthright FROM birth or by involuntary servitude, being subject to vicious beatings and having ones children sold to strangers in another state. Yet an argument can be made, especially if one believes existence on Earth just an infinitesimal part of their whole existence.

Nonetheless, Lee not only fought for the Confederacy, but LED those who did, despite hating slavery and secession as much as he loved the Union: Not because he loved the Union less, but because he loved Virginia more. Let us not pretend that was an easy choice nor all about slavery (when it was at all.) Rather than take the Confederacys loyalty oath, Sam Houston resigned as governor of the state HE led in a SUCCESSFUL war of independence and then twice served as president: Because he loved the Union more (and because he knew the Civil War would ruin Texas and the rest of the South.) It is easy to condemn treason; it is hard to condemn a man forced to choose between two great conflicting loyalties.

Seriously, how can a fellow native Southerner even debate this? Should we get rid of Mardi Gras, jazz and blues because they are symbols of the South, and therefore slavery and rebellion? Or is there more to the South than just slavery and a rebellion 150 years ago and segregation 100 years after that?

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This message last edited by Joel on 30/06/2015 at 06:02:28 PM
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racist mass murderer finally brings about the end of the US Civil War 150 years after the fact moondog - 24/06/2015 11:41:08 PM 955 Views
And everyone needs to stop watching Gone with the Wind! *NM* Anonymous2000 - 25/06/2015 06:45:09 PM 272 Views
White supremacists use the cross and US flag at least as much: Should we ban those "racist" symbols? Joel - 25/06/2015 08:09:30 PM 883 Views
The Democratic party has a worse history of racism than the army of the CSA. Let's ban that! Cannoli - 25/06/2015 11:19:09 PM 720 Views
Not really, since the CSA was IN the Democratic Party then and is in the Republican Party NOW Joel - 26/06/2015 11:16:30 PM 630 Views
I never accused FDR of preparing for war, just of trying to provoke one; which only makes it worse Cannoli - 02/07/2015 10:20:37 PM 586 Views
Implying FDR simultaneously disarmed AND incited war insults your intellect, not his Joel - 04/07/2015 02:21:07 AM 705 Views
the question is: why do you want to continue to worship the symbols of slavery and racism? moondog - 26/06/2015 12:06:06 AM 617 Views
You are such an ignorant fuck *NM* random thoughts - 26/06/2015 02:09:29 AM 308 Views
now that's the kind of well-reasoned and thoughtful response i've come to expect from you *NM* moondog - 26/06/2015 05:54:05 PM 344 Views
No, the question remains why the cross, US flag and Confederate Battle Flag=racism Joel - 26/06/2015 11:28:22 PM 707 Views
The US flag was used to commit herindous war crimes against the Americans in the South random thoughts - 25/06/2015 09:54:33 PM 650 Views
But we won, so we get the final say on what is good or bad. Anonymous2000 - 26/06/2015 02:52:41 PM 609 Views
And we get to fly our flags in protest of the war of northern aggression *NM* random thoughts - 26/06/2015 03:27:59 PM 356 Views
if you can prove the US flag was specifically commissioned to hold on to slavery then make the case moondog - 26/06/2015 05:56:34 PM 584 Views
The accusation is yours: Prove the Confederacy was specifically commissioned for slavery Joel - 26/06/2015 11:44:59 PM 704 Views
You should read The Confederate and Neo-Confederate Reader if you truly believe that. *NM* Ghavrel - 27/06/2015 05:56:33 AM 346 Views
Read Lee stating his hatred of slavery AND secession, and love of the Union, if you do not Joel - 30/06/2015 06:01:01 PM 607 Views
Lee is one man who didn't hold office in the Confederacy, and he's an exception. Ghavrel - 04/07/2015 08:12:10 PM 751 Views
Stephens is also one man, and was not George Washingtons heir Joel - 09/07/2015 01:40:53 AM 686 Views
"a separation from the North-was the only thing that could prevent the abolition of ... slavery" moondog - 01/07/2015 09:55:33 PM 618 Views
Wikipedia ALSO has a whole ARTICLE on the wars causes; odd, when they could "just say, 'slavery.'" Joel - 01/07/2015 11:58:09 PM 825 Views
Lets play which General shuld be honored and you take Grant and I will take Lee random thoughts - 02/07/2015 01:53:29 PM 760 Views
To be fair, the scorched earth terrorism was not Meatgrinder Grants idea, but Shermans Joel - 04/07/2015 12:33:41 AM 699 Views
Honestly, the fact of the matter is we shouldn't ban anything Fox and Ravens - 26/06/2015 02:38:07 PM 659 Views
the only thing being banned is the display of such items at state/public buildings moondog - 26/06/2015 05:51:04 PM 638 Views
It' really funny you should bring up the Swastika Fox and Ravens - 26/06/2015 08:35:59 PM 714 Views
Again, state rights is why "if you dislike it, LEAVE!" is largely viable in the US Joel - 27/06/2015 12:02:32 AM 566 Views
The Stars and Bars was the Confederate NATIONAL flag, but otherwise, yeah Joel - 26/06/2015 11:57:08 PM 643 Views
All stand for the national anthem of the Confederate States Sports_Gambler - 30/06/2015 04:44:58 PM 773 Views
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