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"Oh, Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes-Benz?!" Joel Send a noteboard - 26/06/2015 12:41:48 PM

I am very conflicted about that song: As a woman oppressed by the Patriarchy, Janis' pleas have much merit, but as a white benefiting from that Privilege, she her entitlement has already been over-indulged. Is there some way we can promote her second X chromosome while refusing to hire her Caucasian genes? Or maybe find out whom she sleeps with so that can break the tie? And one other thing: Is it obvious this issue has lately been on my mind even more than it ALWAYS is?


View original postEdit: On a completely unrelated note and just out of curiosity, are you back in the US? Or just insomniac, to be posting posts that long at those hours?

Still i Norge. My sleep "schedule" has been totally bizarre at least since age ten; "enhance" that with a year and a half of someone who needs constant supervision because she often falls over NOTHING, and wakes up whenever, and we get my current situation. Thank heaven for barnehagen, but that was the last of several long posts of which I was literally on the last two sentences when the toddler woke up; the wife got up with her because certain no one who had been awake 40 hours could be lucid and alert enough to care for a baby. So, me being me, when she went out to smoke I sat the kid on my shoulder, walked over to the window and pretended to lose my balance.
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View original postJust a reminder Texas has given the world far more awesome than awful things (and I still refuse blame for the Bushs: That is on Connecticut alone.)
It also seems to be the only state besides maybe Hawaii whose flag isn't utterly hilarious (don't mind me, I just read a Washington Post blog post making fun of all American state flags).

On behalf of the great nations of Chile and Texas, I thank you (OK, technically the cantons are different sizes, but that difference is so slight our Secy. of State sent out 2012 election fliers displaying THEIR flag. ) Some others are not terrible, but the big thing I noticed in that article was a reminder Nevadas nickname (displayed on the flag) is "Battle Born," a reference to its Civil War birth. That in turn reminded me its Civil War constitution authorizes any necessary force against anyone defying federal authority: Yet Clive Bundy insists he pointed guns at federal agents enforcing state law because he was "upholding the Nevada constitution." The one that essentially legalizes shooting rebels on sight.
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View original postThanks for being gracious about that: I am embarrassed to say that until I went googling to find last years Guardian article again I was unaware of what happened in your neck of the woods, and then torn between feeling obliged to note the relevance and not coming off as if reducing peoples deaths to talking points. It still enrages me when people do that with Breivik, partly because I was just an hours drive away when it happened; two of my sister-in-laws friends were killed. Hope no one you knew was hurt in the latest sociopathic atrocity, and that the Mideast and Africa soon start looking more like the West instead of the reverse (though the tend of all three alarms me.)
No one I know, no, but indeed, Belgium's had rather its share of terrorist scares these past few years... and the highest per capita number of people who ran off to join ISIS, which doesn't exactly bode well for the future either. Sorry to hear Breivik hit so close to home - certainly in a league of its own, that.

Thanks, and yeah, the magnitude magnified shock: Arguably the MOST internationally and domestically peaceful nation hit with the worlds deadliest one-man murder spree EVER (several times over.) It would be as stunning as tragic anywhere, but HERE?! And Breiviks method and success are chilling: A former leader of TWO far right party youth chapters training its next generation leaders moves to decimating the LEFTS next generation of leaders while still kids--and the LEFTS blame for "slow response" his diversion ensured helps put his party in a ruling coalition for the first time EVER. That is an existential threat to democracy, but: How do we stop a guy who avoids even TRAFFIC TICKETS for a DECADE while plotting atrocity? The most vigorous laws and enforcement CANNOT, and if it can happen in a pacific leftist posterchild like Norway... in its own way, Utøya was as big as 911.

I did not know that about ISIS recruitment. Still, the total population is small enough even a few people can skew per capita stats; Breivik TRIPLED Norways per capita murder rate. On the other hand, he also proved even ONE homicidal terrorist is too many. Eternal vigilance--and a shotgun; people may be able to cut and paste or design convincing "uniform" logos, but not 3-D print kevlar. Parenthood changes ones willingness to rely exclusively on law enforcement to reach the helpless before armed homicidal people can, and on laws to prevent such attacks in the first place. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, but that is no reason to stop making penicillin.


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View original postWe are partly and in most cases primarily European; I have Scottish, Irish and French ancestry, but also Cherokee and Choctaw: America is the Heinz 57 race. That said, I almost cited the Klans WASP bigotry when you referenced them, but you know how I hate long overly detailed posts. We have our share of anti-Semitism both from the Klan and elsewhere, but the big difference is that 1) we are such a melting pot it is easy for those never (or seldom) affected by bigotry to overlook and 2) Jews have long been a huge and prominent part of that: Before they had Israel, Jews fleeing persecution usually sought US residency (as most people fleeing persecution did then.) Even since, the average of US Jewish estimates is larger than ISRAELS Jewish population; though still only 2% of the US, that is ~40% of ALL Jews. France is next, but its Jewish population is more than an order of magnitude less. Our Jewish population is also mostly concentrated in a few areas; though that can be both good and bad, the general rule is that there is safety in numbers.
That wasn't precisely what I meant actually - despite the Klan and neo-Nazis, I won't dispute that anti-Semitism has been a much smaller issue in the history of the USA than in Europe over the same period. What I was getting at, is that if you're looking at two thousand years of history, as you insist on doing, the two hundred odd years that the USA is a separate place from Europe are pretty meaningless - and if you go back further, things like medieval pogroms are as much a part of most Americans' history as a European's.

Well, yes, but Americas founding repudiated much of our European cultural heritage: We had (theoretically) evolved beyond all but the good parts of European culture and would do it better. Like when Roger Williams gave the Western world the concept of liberty of conscience after the Thirty Years War, carrying it back to Britain amid their civil war, where it quickly spread to the continent and influenced a generation of social philosophers like Locke. Not that we have always been perfect, but revolutionary suggestions to make nondenominational Christianity the US state religion were shouted down in part out of respect for Jews in the Continental Congress and Army: No one should become a second class citizen in a nation their blood helped create. The bulk of US racial problems are shamefully of our own historically recent making.

Yet even were none of that so: How would our share of Europes antisemtic history (which covered at least 1600 years by any estimate) change modern Europes culpability for it? It may be another reason for the US to support Israel, but cannot be cause for Europe to oppose it.


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View original postThat is the thing though: Removing “historical Palestine” from an equation where it never belonged necessarily removes its NATIONAL claims to any state anywhere. It is hard to make a case for “irredentism” of a “nation” younger than many of its “citizens.” The sole truly solid claim that leaves is filial rather than national, which is fine—but also makes “Palestinians” living in Gaza, the West Bank or anywhere as ISRAELI citizens equally fine. The problem is trying that always ends badly for Israel, because the combined Jewish population of Israel and the Palestinian State is roughly equal to that of Palestinians/Arabs, and virtually none of the latter not currently living in Israel have any desire to do so, so any attempt at integration merely gives thousands of terrorists free access to all their targets.
Well, I agree in the sense that I don't think the Palestinians should necessarily have a separate state - I have no objection in principle to a binational state, if that turns out to be more practical than the alternative. I disagree in the sense that I am indeed convinced the Palestinians are a separate Arab nation now, regardless of what they were four generations ago, and that "solving" the problem by e.g. just giving the West Bank to Jordan and the Gaza Strip to Egypt wouldn't work (even if either country was at all interested). The other Arab nations are also quite separate, by the way, even if they all do their best to keep writing the same language (speaking, not so much). Some of them are very nearly as hostile to each other as they are to Israel (I do a fair bit of business with Algeria - if you're smart you'll never mention either Morocco or Egypt to an Algerian, though in fairness that was nothing compared to the spectacle that we were treated to when accidentally delivering goods in a container displaying a David's star). Pan-Arabism used to be a big thing for a while, and it still has its adherents, but a clear minority. A place like Morocco has been politically and culturally separate from most of the rest of the Arab world for most of the last millennium - much longer than the USA has been separate from Europe.

Why would transferring Gaza to Egypt and the West Bank to Jordan be a problem though? Because of Palestinian nationalism, or the number of Palestinians uncompromisingly committed to possessing all of ISRAEL along with their existing state? Particularly those committed enough to murder everyone who stands in the way, and sacrifice anyone--even there own children--for that goal. Why did most refugees end up BACK in the Occupied Territories Israel STILL occupied? As I recall, King Hussein got tired of Arafat sneaking across the Jordan to murder civilians before fleeing back to Jordan with the IDF on his heels, then the PLO attempted a Jordanian coup because the King refused to condone them, and their welcome promptly expired.

It is a thought you and I have probably both considered more than Egypt or Syria have, but until/unless all militants on all sides are reformed, imprisoned or killed peace in the region must remain rare and brief. Breivik proved the only way to stop even one man who is intelligent, careful and committed to violence is to either lock him up or kill him. There is far more than one such man (and women) in and around the Palestinian State and Israel. And it is a Catch 22: If Hamas were pacified (as Fatah seems to be, which is a tribute to them and everyone involved in the protracted peace process) Israeli and international popular opinion would probably force out the settlers, but absent the terrorists "Palestinians" could live as peaceful full citizens of Israel, Egypt, Jordan or any state.

The legitimacy of a "nation" younger than some of its "citizens" remains dubious to me though; had Britain won the War of 1812 I and most "Americans" would likely consider Washington, Jefferson and the rest the foulest traitors, not our greatest heroes. Many "Palestinians" have lived elsewhere as long as or longer than they in the Palestinian State, whose legal existence is not much longer than the American Confederacys none but a few lunatics and traitors consider legitimate. Gaza is a nightmare which practicality argues be part of Egypt, Israel or ANYONE BUT the Palestinian State, else crossing from one part of the Palestinian State to another THROUGH Israel (and who does what on the way) will remain a major issue indefinitely. Gaza (especially as a route to the sea) would likely be an obstacle to peace even if itself peaceful--which it hardly is.


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View original postMy view is not eschatologically based (again, whether or not one accepts Gods existence, any such being that MAY exist is fully capable and certain of accomplishing all His prophecies unaided) and only PARTLY biblically based. The bible never mentions Josephus, only vaguely (possibly) references the Diaspora and never mentions Alexandrias periodic ancient riots, let alone Europes periodic Jewish genocides. And those last are extremely relevant because Europe repeatedlyTRIED (with variable sincerity) integrating Jews as full citizens of its various states, never achieved more than brief partial success invariably wiped away by further genocide, finally culminating in the Holocaust. Ironically, Germany (partly due to its fragmented pre-Bismarck nature) and Austria (more ironically around the time of Prussias rise) had the most success, IMHO, but that also ended in the most gruesome failure. Prior to that at least repression was constant after the dawn of the Medieval period, and genocides common. So not technically 2000 years; again, Europe gets a pass for the roughly three centuries Europe was too busy struggling for its OWN survival to threaten anyone elses. But even just counting from 800 AD: Had ANY European nation found a way to enduring integrate Jews, is not certain it would have DONE SO? It is worth noting Zionism contributed; integration is impossible with people who PREFER segregation, merely objecting to its LOCATION. But the same evidence exists there: If Jews did not forget Zion after 2000 years, what chance they will do so any time soon?
Not much of that is really wrong, it's just over-generalized. Examples like the Khazar empire, the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, the Caliphate of al-Andalus and, more debatably, the Osman Empire all show that Jews could thrive in Europe under the right circumstances - and if the states in question had survived, their thriving Jewish communities would have too.

I'm actually reminded of your earlier comment - that Europeans historically have pretty much sucked at dealing with any kind of minority that wouldn't or couldn't blend in, it just so happens that for most of that history there weren't that many of those except Jews. And then of course the Christian anti-semitism on top of that.


That is underscored by my response to the first point: Only ONE of the four cited governments was EUROPEAN rather than Turkish, Arab or whatever one classifies the Khazars as (certainly not European; one of the competing theories is that they were mainly ethnic JEWS, which would tend to preclude antisemitism.) Saying Jews were safe in parts of Europe ruled by NON-Europeans is not saying much for Europeans.
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View original postTo really illustrate the point: All those arguments about OWING people no nation of their own, only integration with the existing one in which they reside, that doing otherwise invites irredentism and discrimination while forcing the impossible question of drawing historically variable borders, that policy should be based on present reality rather than the vanished past: EACH of those points is at least as applicable to the Palestinian State as to Israel, except maybe the variability of historical borders: Because there was never any HISTORICAL Palestine to have any. I am continually struck by this: Apparently right of return EXPIRES after a precise but indefinite amount of time, because Isreals has even though Palestines has not: Does that mean Israel should just wait out the Palestinians until their statute of limitations expires as Israels did? Who cares that your grandfather lived here all his life; his life ended 10 years ago and now I live here, which is the present on which politics should be based.
Yes, "a precise but indefinite amount of time" sounds about right. How long that should be depends on many things, but mostly just on the attitude of the refugees and their new host countries. I was thinking about it this morning and struck by the fact that besides the Palestinians, there are at least two other cases of much larger populations being permanently displaced, all in a period of less than three years in 1945-1948: the Germans of Silesia, the Baltics, the Sudetenland etc., and the Indian Muslims displaced to Pakistan (as well as Hindus displaced to India). In both cases, it became obvious in a matter of a few decades at most that there was no question of going back, and nobody is seriously saying otherwise now. Not that that justifies the initial expulsions in any way (both of which involved death tolls that were many times higher than the entire Israeli-Palestinian/Arab conflict, while we're at it - see, your tendency of rambling is contagious!).

"Precise but indefinite" is so conflicted it took me a second to be sure the combination is even POSSIBLE; that is a bad metric for deciding dinner, much less the legitimacy of nations. It essentially means waiting till every refugee died or gave up would have legitimized Isreali ownership of the West Bank and Gaza; Bibi and his supporters might agree, but few others would. It was soon obvious Silesian Germans and Pakistani Hindus could never return because those who remained were slaughtered or imprisoned and the refugees were promised the same if they DID return. So if Israel WERE guilty of the genocide of which it is so often accused it would have the legal right to Gaza and the West Bank?! Some Israelis would be all too happy to “correct” that “error” now, but that is hardly a recipe for peace (or morality.) Stuff like this is why ancient Mideast cultures invented genocide simultaneously with Western civilization, but the latter is SUPPOSED to be beyond the former now.

Yet world history since the first Geneva Conventions increasingly suggests the only way to truly END genocide is to impose comprehensive martial law on nations guilty of it, then teach tolerance in schools everyone is forced to attend form birth till adulthood, purging the next generation of the notion ethnic cleansing is acceptable. The trouble is 1) unlike the postwar West, todays public refuses to sign on for that cost in men, material and time and 2) the UN nominally defines that as GENOCIDE ALSO (because it coercively eradicates an integral part of a culture.) Frankly, I think we must accept reality in acknowledging some cultural norms as crying out to be changed and that doing so is a GENERATIONAL commitment, not one of months or even years. People conditioned to genocide from birth cannot be talked out of it at a cafe over summer vacation.

Unless we accept the same level of commitment as in WW II, people like ISIS and Al Qaeda can only grow more powerful and proximate, because as they sweep through an area they leave no dissenters in their wake to raise future objections. Cultural norms can and should be respected where harmless, but that excludes intolerant violence. It is not OKAY to hate others, but is TOLERABLE; violence to sate hate is neither tolerable nor permissable.


View original postAs you can tell, I'm really a pragmatist at heart about this. It may not seem that way now, but there were times back in 1949 after the armistice when real peace between Israel and its neighbours didn't seem that far off - and if Israel had taken back a small portion of the refugees then as part of comprehensive peace, with the rest resettled for good in their new homes, nobody would be talking about the whole thing anymore now. You could argue that Israel's victory at the time was either too complete, or insufficiently so; too easy in the end to make them willing to make big territorial concessions for peace, but not overwhelming enough to make the Arab "brother" nations accept the Palestinian refugees as permanently adopted citizens rather than annoying temporary houseguests. Same with all other conflicts after that.

Permanent refugee residence, even eventual citizenship, was long on the table in Egypt and Jordan, and nothing Israel did changed that: Salafism and Qutb did. “Palestinian” adherents continued anti-Israel terrorism from WITHIN Egypt and Jordan while native ones committed their own treason and/or terrorism in solidarity, both to force another war and topple their secular governments. Not only did Egypt and Jordan consistently and BADLY lose those wars of terrorists choosing, the fundamental pan-Islamic position caused violence and coups both as much for its own sake as to threaten Israel, which was (and IS) a mortal threat to Egypt and Jordans secular nationalist governments. Syrias, too, as ISIS and its ilk are finally forcing even Assads heir to acknowledge in practice if not name. To the extent Salafis and Qutbists have moderated their means (despite preserving their GOALS) the situation is improved, but it is debatable whether that ostensible moderation is sincere or but feigned to reduce public censure and alarmed domestic/international response.

More simply, “Palestinians” WHO DID NOT REFUSE could have lived as full citizens in any part of Israel at any time, and still can, as evidenced by the fact MANY DO: Arabs ALONE have been members of every Knesset in HISTORY, and currently hold 15% of seats, while Tawfik Toubi held one longer than ANYONE except Perez. Yet those who violently refused Israeli citizenship in “Palestine” naturally and equally refused Egyptian, Jordanian and Syrian citizenship in those countries, often with the same violence: Give them possession AND CONTROL of their native land or they will murder everyone. And other Arab-state citizens who violently rejected secular Islamic rule at home supported them because they equally violently rejected secular Jewish rule in what they also considered “home” (i.e. any and all parts of the Medieval Caliphate.) Take Jews out of the picture entirely and most of them would STILL be committing violence in Israel, just against (probably) Jordanian rule instead. They are as “pragmatically reasonable” as my one-year-old; fortunately, she does not have access to explosives and the knowledge to use them.

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Those morons in Gaza (i.e., Hamas) are at it again - - 18/07/2014 04:02:57 PM 1149 Views
If by awesome you mean execrable, then yes, you're right. - 18/07/2014 11:45:53 PM 654 Views
Sounds like someone doesn't like jews! - 19/07/2014 04:24:41 AM 586 Views
It's funny you should say that. - 19/07/2014 09:36:57 AM 667 Views
your criticism would be better applied to Palestine supporters - 19/07/2014 11:50:37 AM 568 Views
My criticism IS also applied to Palestine supporters. It's not an either/or deal. - 19/07/2014 09:03:51 PM 596 Views
Agreed on that much, certainly. - 23/07/2014 03:05:22 AM 721 Views
Well, look who's back in the game! - 23/07/2014 07:44:45 PM 819 Views
Haltingly.... - 07/08/2014 03:41:06 AM 646 Views
The only good thing about ancient interminable wars is that--more-- - 13/06/2015 11:40:48 PM 502 Views
Oh lord. - 22/06/2015 10:08:22 PM 570 Views
"'Dialing for Dollars' is looking for me" - 24/06/2015 04:48:51 AM 644 Views
At the risk of prompting another long ramble, I've no idea what that reference is to. - 24/06/2015 10:39:42 PM 529 Views
"Oh, Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes-Benz?!" - 26/06/2015 12:41:48 PM 505 Views
I'm going to try to shorten and summarize this a bit... - 28/06/2015 11:21:28 PM 845 Views
I couldn't help but overhear... - 19/07/2014 01:13:01 PM 641 Views
Good, I was hoping you'd drop by! - 19/07/2014 08:33:44 PM 756 Views
I strongly beg to differ with your position re: Hamas - 26/07/2014 04:25:54 PM 521 Views
Sorry, I don't see that. - 26/07/2014 08:57:08 PM 608 Views
I guess if you believe the lies of Hamas your position makes sense. - 27/07/2014 03:20:03 PM 553 Views
+1 - 27/07/2014 04:00:05 PM 625 Views
I certainly don't believe everything they say, no. - 27/07/2014 06:43:51 PM 631 Views
the carrot and stick is somewhat apt, although israel should have given way more carrots to date - 22/07/2014 08:57:13 PM 655 Views
So Israel should back the least radical Palestinian faction & construct Palestinian infrastructure? - 23/07/2014 04:51:19 AM 615 Views
yes - 23/07/2014 05:04:58 PM 767 Views
I pretty much agree with everything you said. - 24/07/2014 09:46:22 AM 739 Views
Why do you hate America? - 23/07/2014 02:29:24 AM 621 Views
Bottom line - stop lobbing missles into Israel and the problem is solved. - 28/07/2014 03:35:46 AM 541 Views
It's a circle of violence. Both sides are the villian. - 31/07/2014 03:50:52 AM 656 Views

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