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That really does set the normal criminal justice system on its head. Legolas Send a noteboard - 04/03/2015 11:41:04 PM

View original postthis is why passing "yes means yes" laws are so important, because otherwise it's up to the victim to prove they said "no" at each and every point along the way, and that they were able to say "no" at each and every point along the way. this is incredibly difficult if the situation is someone who is too inebriated to say their own name coherently, much less agree or disagree to someone's sexual advances. and even more difficult if we have to assume that a good faith attempt at resistance has to have been attempted before we can call it rape. it's not for you to decide whether or not someone thinks they were raped, it's the victim's decision to pursue rape charges. and it's up to the accused to prove they did not rape the victim. if a victim says they were raped, they should be believed until it can be proven that they were not raped. end of story.

I don't agree with much of what Cannoli and to some extent RT have been saying in this thread, and actually I still think the original statements reported on in those articles made a lot of sense. But. What you're writing here is several steps too far. You know very well that proving a negative is often close to impossible, and it's hard to see why rape should have an inverse burden of proof compared to any other crime, even including still worse ones like murder or heinous torture. Silence or an absence of resistance does not mean "yes", that's true, but you can't seriously expect people to obtain the kind of proof that would hold in a court of law before engaging in sex with anyone. Proof that they believed in good faith that the victim consented seems like the limit of what you can reasonably require (combined of course with the usual judgement calls on what does and doesn't constitute a reasonable good faith belief under any given set of circumstances - if the victim is borderline comatose she can't realistically provide credible indications of consent).

Being the victim of a crime as horrible as rape is awful, and seeing the guilty party walk away scot free is even more so, but that doesn't justify overturning the basic tenet of the Western criminal justice system which holds that letting a criminal walk free when in doubt is a lesser evil than punishing an innocent.

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Drunk Sex - 03/03/2015 03:32:30 PM 1216 Views
Shouldn't the manner of getting hammered factor in ? - 03/03/2015 05:31:48 PM 764 Views
It's worth reading the BBC and Telegraph articles your article links to. - 03/03/2015 06:23:32 PM 887 Views
I am more interested in the trend in general and not this specific law - 03/03/2015 07:10:20 PM 705 Views
A lot of those studies are based on adjusting the goalposts for rape - 04/03/2015 12:58:06 AM 557 Views
[citation needed] - 04/03/2015 10:13:38 PM 530 Views
They'd better enforce it equally *NM* - 03/03/2015 06:28:38 PM 265 Views
Just like hate crime is enforced equally? *NM* - 03/03/2015 07:10:45 PM 277 Views
Exactly. I don't have high hopes *NM* - 03/03/2015 09:10:40 PM 368 Views
it's pretty simple actually: don't take advantage of someone who isn't in their right state of mind - 03/03/2015 11:21:54 PM 498 Views
But they are making it complicated - 04/03/2015 12:12:27 AM 545 Views
no, it's actually turning the burden of proof onto the accused as it should be - 04/03/2015 10:09:59 PM 695 Views
Re: no, it's actually turning the burden of proof onto the accused as it should be - 04/03/2015 11:29:00 PM 568 Views
Yes - 05/03/2015 09:21:41 PM 738 Views
Why are women having sex the only people immune from bad decisions while intoxicate? - 04/03/2015 03:59:31 PM 565 Views
who are you to decide what is rape and what is not? - 04/03/2015 09:55:35 PM 612 Views
That really does set the normal criminal justice system on its head. - 04/03/2015 11:41:04 PM 666 Views
The only rational one the in this conversation by all appearances. - 05/03/2015 02:39:56 AM 596 Views
So you're guilty until proven innocent?? - 06/03/2015 01:52:47 AM 794 Views
They get around all that proof stuff by keeping it out of the courts - 09/03/2015 04:34:21 PM 522 Views
And that shit is happening ALL THE TIME. - 09/03/2015 04:57:53 PM 614 Views
i think you may be pushing your personal bias on the author. - 06/03/2015 06:42:15 PM 714 Views

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