Active Users:1013 Time:22/11/2024 04:55:55 AM
I think you may be misreading my post. I do agree with most of yours actually. Legolas Send a noteboard - 17/02/2015 10:11:29 PM

View original postAmerica isn't better at integrating minorities than Europe because of geography but because of the fundamentals of how we were built. Taken nationalism for example. In Europe it is seen as a dangerous mindset that divides Europe and has led to some of your worst wars. In the US with the exception of some group think liberals nationalism is seen in very positive light and the lack of nationalism led to our worst war. We just view what makes a American different than how a Swede views what makes a Swede.

I did mention that, or something very similar. But simple geography and its economic consequences do play a role in addition to the differences in mentality - they did so back in the eighteenth and nineteenth century, and they still do today. When all those Irish, Italians, Germans, whatever emigrated to the US in the nineteenth century, it was for the vast majority of them a one-way trip: at best, they could afford to take a holiday or two back to the mother country many years later, if they even wanted to, but that was quite rare. Nowadays it's a lot easier for immigrants to return to their home country on holiday or to visit family or whatever, but still it's expensive, and most Americans (immigrant or not) don't get too many days off in which they could fly back to their country of origin. So they had better make their life entirely in America and give up on the idea of maintaining close ties with the homeland.

You'll only understand the point I'm making if you then compare it to the Moroccan, Algerian, Turkish,... minorities in Europe nowadays. For them, going back to their country of origin doesn't take more than two or three days by car/ferry, at a very modest cost, and they have longer holidays, like all Europeans; so it is very common for these immigrant families to spend a month or so each year in their country of origin. And also still surprisingly common that during this time the emigrated young men and women find a suitable partner from the old home country. It doesn't take a genius to realize that this makes full integration in Europe somewhat more challenging - they are effectively citizens of both Europe and their home countries, but don't entirely belong in either.

View original postWe do have large enclaves of immigrants that cluster in one area. Look at the various China Towns or even the large ethnic neighborhoods on the East Coast and in places like Chicago. We have huge neighborhoods that were at one time almost all Italian or Jewish or Irish ect. The biggest difference between America and just about everywhere else is there is no ethnic group that is considered "American". In the eyes of the vast majority of Americans you are just as American if your grandparents are from China as you are if the are from Scotland, as long as you ware willing to assimilate that is. Will the French ever consider a man of Ethiopian decent to be just as French as one whose ancestors fought with Napoleon?

France is a bad example actually - I've said before that France is in many ways the USA of Europe, and that includes some good sides as well as bad ones. I think they are better at ignoring skin colour or ancestry and accepting anyone who shares their republican values than many other Europeans. At least as long as said person also shares their language. I wouldn't say it's anything like the American melting pot, but, despite Charlie Hebdo and the scare stories about no-go areas where the police doesn't even dare to tread, they still do a better job at making immigrants proud of their adopted country than most other countries in Europe.

But for the most part of Europe, you're quite right. I do admire that about America and I have no problem admitting it.

View original postThat being said both of us our having trouble with Islamic immigrants. The US has it easier since we are not only better equipped than Europe to assimilate but I think we attract less radicalized Muslims than Europe does and many of the Muslims we have came here to get away from the very things that make it an issue. Of course any religion which believes its religious teachings supersede sectarian law will have trouble integrating. The hard truth of the matter is at this point in history many Muslims are just to radical in their beliefs to fit well in other nations. The US is large enough and diverse enough to absorb them and we are ruthless enough to force the issue if we have to. I am not sure that is true for many European nations.

You're totally right with the "large enough and diverse enough" part. In most major European cities, there are by now areas where easily 30, 40, 50% of the population is a first, second or third generation Muslim immigrant (in some entire countries, the percentages are between 5 and 10%). The scare stories are nonsense, but it's definitely true that with such numbers, this is no longer a minority comparable to American Muslims - or to European Jews. The only comparison that will make sense to Americans is with Hispanics in some areas - the kind of area where towns feel so threatened that they start passing laws or regulations enshrining English as sole official language, for instance.

I don't know if the US attracts less radicalized Muslims, necessarily. Less conservative and more open-minded ones, yes, agreed, because they are also higher educated. But that doesn't really say much about their inclination towards violent radicalism. Most radicalized Muslims in the West didn't immigrate that way - most of them are young hotheads who are actually born, or at least raised, in the West, and radicalized not under the influence of the neighbourhood mosque, but under the influence of people and writings they find online.

Reply to message
How anti-semitic is Europe? - 17/02/2015 03:01:59 AM 941 Views
Too bad they have such strict gun control - 17/02/2015 06:54:55 AM 833 Views
Really? Most of that is common sense, and not anti-semitic by any definition of the word. - 17/02/2015 07:26:52 PM 593 Views
I agree. Netanyahu was wrong and populist saying that. *NM* - 18/02/2015 09:28:25 AM 282 Views
Not to mention it's not quite the first time - 18/02/2015 01:01:32 PM 745 Views
Meh - 17/02/2015 08:55:08 AM 721 Views
Heh. He hates Israel and feels no anti-semitism eh ? - 17/02/2015 09:50:43 AM 634 Views
He's Israeli, though. I guess he has his reasons *shrug* - 17/02/2015 10:07:28 AM 638 Views
So which is it, is Europe too accommodating or not accommodating enough? - 17/02/2015 07:05:44 PM 645 Views
I think you may be misreading Ameirca - 17/02/2015 09:20:26 PM 625 Views
We killed all of the natives, though - 17/02/2015 09:51:47 PM 652 Views
I think you may be misreading my post. I do agree with most of yours actually. - 17/02/2015 10:11:29 PM 745 Views
don't you think socializm and welfare have something to do with it ? - 18/02/2015 07:04:31 AM 643 Views
No. - 18/02/2015 08:28:34 AM 833 Views
Touchy - 18/02/2015 09:05:48 AM 623 Views
Government dependence does seem to be working well in Greece *NM* - 18/02/2015 01:26:43 PM 309 Views
Socialism IS a bad thing, though - 18/02/2015 03:38:50 PM 594 Views
Maybe to some extent, but I don't think that's a big factor. - 18/02/2015 07:05:37 PM 682 Views

Reply to Message