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Yeah. nossy Send a noteboard - 10/01/2015 01:17:52 PM

View original postThose in the West did too, not that long ago, even if the more extreme kinds like witch-burning are rather longer ago. These are things that of course have to change, here the silent majority has to change its view, but you can't expect them to change overnight, and the more Muslims have the impression that their religion is under attack, the less open they'll be to that kind of change.

This is essentially what I wanted to point out. It won't change immediately, or even quickly, especially w/o outside support. Education and openness are needed, though it's obviously difficult when frequent acts of senseless violence cloud the issue.

View original postI think the Muslims in the United States are more tolerant because they are richer and better educated, more than anything else. Simple economic factors explain why the Muslim immigrants who could afford to go as far as the US have thrived there, much more so than the ones who couldn't afford to go further than Europe - but, from there, can easily return to their homelands on a yearly basis, and in so doing voluntarily place themselves in a kind of neither-here-nor-there position.

And this. Money, education, real access to people who aren't like them, money.

View original postThey can and must keep saying it: not in our name, <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFBQEjghDOw">this is not us</a>, we as the silent majority of believers deny that this is the real Islam. But as a statement of intention, a spur to action, not as a way of denying the problem.

And yes again. Yes, please.

View original postI think you're conflating issues there that can't be resolved in the same way or at the same time. Ending terrorism and religiously motivated murder is a more concrete, short term goal than generally changing people's mindsets and having them embrace pluralism and full freedom of religion and expression - those last ones seem more like something happening across generations.

We were allowed to learn this way; as much as we might want to put a stop to the violence now, it just won't work w/o time and acceptance/inclusion of those who aren't committing the violence. It has to be seen and condemned from within those communities as a real offense and a crime, rather than an option for martyrdom.

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So guys, what about Paris? Tom - 10/01/2015 02:00:10 AM 1189 Views

Completely agree. wooly - 10/01/2015 05:39:53 AM 576 Views

Agree with some things. Not all. Legolas - 10/01/2015 10:56:59 AM 1028 Views

Yeah. nossy - 10/01/2015 01:17:52 PM 597 Views

Meh. Nobody's going to do anything about it. *NM* ßelals Girl - 10/01/2015 07:04:26 PM 276 Views

Re: So guys, what about Paris? DomA - 11/01/2015 04:18:35 AM 883 Views

That article was awesome Tom - 11/01/2015 05:26:46 AM 635 Views

the Google translation is not great, but it gets the point across. *NM* nossy - 11/01/2015 09:51:29 AM 260 Views

Re: That article was awesome DomA - 12/01/2015 04:59:54 PM 643 Views

That article has some issues. Legolas - 12/01/2015 07:43:04 PM 578 Views

You're still a bit of an apologist for the ills of the Muslim world. Tom - 12/01/2015 11:27:18 PM 644 Views

I don't think so. I see them clear enough, I just see the other factors too. Legolas - 13/01/2015 06:55:49 PM 510 Views

It's all such a big mess, and I am getting increasingly pessimistic about it ironclad - 11/01/2015 11:21:45 AM 759 Views

What is the problem with Pegida? Tom - 12/01/2015 11:37:49 PM 625 Views

Everything ironclad - 13/01/2015 08:41:17 AM 916 Views

Those 19 points do look fairly reasonable, agreed. Legolas - 13/01/2015 07:08:13 PM 578 Views

Arguendo, if they raise a valid point shouldn't it be addressed? Tom - 14/01/2015 02:59:28 PM 543 Views

Yeah, it should. Legolas - 14/01/2015 08:02:19 PM 556 Views

Yes ironclad - 15/01/2015 11:42:58 AM 749 Views

That's what you get when it's cool to corner Israel AgentApple - 11/01/2015 05:33:56 PM 629 Views

The left has no problem with that same narrative applied to Christianity Cannoli - 11/01/2015 11:04:55 PM 612 Views

For the record... Legolas - 12/01/2015 07:20:35 PM 542 Views

It's a bit disingenuous on Nasrallah's part Tom - 12/01/2015 11:34:02 PM 555 Views

Re: It's a bit disingenuous on Nasrallah's part DomA - 13/01/2015 02:40:55 AM 664 Views

Charlie Hebdo's next week cover DomA - 13/01/2015 03:00:13 AM 954 Views

That magazine will sell out in an hour even with the incredibly high print issue. Tom - 13/01/2015 03:19:16 AM 587 Views

Indeed DomA - 13/01/2015 05:17:56 PM 620 Views

Finally it will be only 300 copies distributed in the USA DomA - 14/01/2015 01:24:45 PM 630 Views

I love that. *NM* Sareitha Sedai - 13/01/2015 06:14:36 PM 280 Views

The world will always have assholes Roland00 - 18/01/2015 03:20:52 AM 561 Views

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<quote id="286619">
<quote id="286618">Those in the West did too, not that long ago, even if the more extreme kinds like witch-burning are rather longer ago. These are things that of course have to change, here the silent majority has to change its view, but you can't expect them to change overnight, and the more Muslims have the impression that their religion is under attack, the less open they'll be to that kind of change. </quote>
This is essentially what I wanted to point out. It won't change immediately, or even quickly, especially w/o outside support. Education and openness are needed, though it's obviously difficult when frequent acts of senseless violence cloud the issue.

<quote id="286618">I think the Muslims in the United States are more tolerant because they are richer and better educated, more than anything else. Simple economic factors explain why the Muslim immigrants who could afford to go as far as the US have thrived there, much more so than the ones who couldn't afford to go further than Europe - but, from there, can easily return to their homelands on a yearly basis, and in so doing voluntarily place themselves in a kind of neither-here-nor-there position. </quote>
And this. Money, education, real access to people who aren't like them, money.

<quote id="286618">They can and must keep saying it: not in our name, <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFBQEjghDOw">this is not us</a>, we as the silent majority of believers deny that this is the real Islam. But as a statement of intention, a spur to action, not as a way of denying the problem. </quote>
And yes again. Yes, please.

<quote id="286618">I think you're conflating issues there that can't be resolved in the same way or at the same time. Ending terrorism and religiously motivated murder is a more concrete, short term goal than generally changing people's mindsets and having them embrace pluralism and full freedom of religion and expression - those last ones seem more like something happening across generations. </quote>
We were allowed to learn this way; as much as we might want to put a stop to the violence now, it just won't work w/o time and acceptance/inclusion of those who aren't committing the violence. It has to be seen and condemned from within those communities as a real offense and a crime, rather than an option for martyrdom. 
</quote>

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