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That's pretty much what a police lieutenant in my hometown said. Cannoli Send a noteboard - 05/12/2014 05:42:51 AM

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I think the complete disregard for the obvious distress he is in is much more damning than the way he was taken down. I know police have basic first aid training and they should have treated immediately for shock. They should have removed the handcuffs and monitored him, his clothing should have been loosened. I see little to no concern in this video for the health of Mr Garner. This video looks more like manslaughter to me than the other.

Not necessarily about the manslaughter, but he said that as part of the use of force SOP, for a small-town police department (2 square miles, 4,000 residents) that is hardly up to its neck in violent arrests, they have specific rules about making sure a handcuffed suspect can breathe properly. Once he's in cuffs, they are supposed to turn him right over. The grip around Garner's neck is not actually a choke-hold, it is a neck grab. It is a hold, used to bring him to the ground, not to choke him into submission. According to the Lt., they should not have been kneeling on his head or chest as long as they did.

But this is exactly the point I am making. These idiots all focus on the wrong things, and take up indefensible positions, and thus taint the arguments against police use of force. When cops are being accused of bullshit and told actions they know were not the cause of death are murderous, they and their supporters are going to get defensive, and not going to listen to the real issues. Absolutely no one has brought this up, instead choosing to emphasize the so-called choke-hold, in which the cop had one of his arms under the subject's armpit. That's not how you choke someone.

Cannoli
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
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New York cop pushes black man's face into pavement and chokes him to death for selling cigerettes Sports_Gambler - 04/12/2014 12:03:54 AM 1252 Views
What does his color have to do with anything? Cannoli - 04/12/2014 07:37:08 AM 774 Views
A short answer for your long post beetnemesis - 04/12/2014 04:43:12 PM 623 Views
123 blacks shot to death by cops in 2012; 326 whites. Cannoli - 05/12/2014 12:40:56 AM 661 Views
These numbers make me angry. Urza - 05/12/2014 05:39:26 AM 616 Views
I hate these stats, so misleading. Only 13% of the US population is black! Nebhead - 05/12/2014 02:02:18 PM 709 Views
"Proportions, man." LiterateDog - 05/12/2014 02:28:23 PM 588 Views
math is hard nossy - 05/12/2014 02:45:08 PM 678 Views
It doesn't matter why. LiterateDog - 05/12/2014 03:19:54 PM 822 Views
it does to me. nossy - 05/12/2014 03:52:01 PM 620 Views
Dangerous territories when you talk socioeconomics The Shrike - 05/12/2014 04:08:57 PM 584 Views
Danger is my middle name. *NM* nossy - 05/12/2014 04:47:23 PM 333 Views
But that's a completely separate issue than the one that the post is talking about. LiterateDog - 05/12/2014 05:12:44 PM 755 Views
Heh, yes. Because none of us ever adds layers to these posts. Ever. nossy - 05/12/2014 07:34:04 PM 645 Views
That is SUCH A BAD SENTENCE. nossy - 05/12/2014 08:07:18 PM 637 Views
I'm not Tom The Shrike - 05/12/2014 10:13:43 PM 585 Views
Thus spake Patsy Stone! LiterateDog - 05/12/2014 10:15:44 PM 599 Views
Sweetie Darling The Shrike - 05/12/2014 10:16:34 PM 490 Views
Okay. I can agree that we do go on tangents. LiterateDog - 05/12/2014 10:23:21 PM 909 Views
Re: "Proportions, man." Nebhead - 05/12/2014 03:34:16 PM 765 Views
So what you have implied here then is that The Shrike - 05/12/2014 04:05:10 PM 639 Views
That's a fair assumption to make *shrug* *NM* Nebhead - 07/12/2014 05:35:59 PM 367 Views
And now you're the one doing exactly what you implied Cannoli was doing. LiterateDog - 05/12/2014 05:17:25 PM 561 Views
Implicit in your posts seems to be the assumption that crime rates and arrest rates are equal Ghavrel - 06/12/2014 09:26:13 AM 713 Views
If you want to keep getting deeper in the weeds..... Anonymous2000 - 06/12/2014 07:28:49 PM 530 Views
I'm not disputing that; I'm saying there's an issue with the overall rates of arrest. *NM* Ghavrel - 06/12/2014 08:29:49 PM 288 Views
the problem with your example is it the execption not the rule random thoughts - 08/12/2014 02:40:14 PM 584 Views
I don't have any proof of that either way. I agree that broken window policing plays a role. *NM* Ghavrel - 09/12/2014 12:25:14 AM 233 Views
They question is it it worth the cost? random thoughts - 09/12/2014 04:40:02 PM 445 Views
...I'm doing no such thing. Nebhead - 07/12/2014 05:27:13 PM 638 Views
L-Dog is right, you are wrong, look at the proportion of crimes committed..... Anonymous2000 - 05/12/2014 06:30:29 PM 621 Views
Erm, no. Nebhead - 07/12/2014 05:34:38 PM 757 Views
Unbelievable. I have no words... *NM* ironclad - 04/12/2014 10:15:32 AM 483 Views
he was not choked to death and he was not choked for selling cigerettes random thoughts - 04/12/2014 02:28:44 PM 589 Views
I mean, "Killed him without intent" is pretty much the definition of manslaughter, isn't it? *NM* beetnemesis - 04/12/2014 04:44:18 PM 351 Views
sorry but it isn't random thoughts - 04/12/2014 05:54:27 PM 559 Views
did you actually watch the video of his death? moondog - 04/12/2014 06:30:26 PM 619 Views
OK watched it all the way. Which one of my conclusions were suppossed to change? random thoughts - 04/12/2014 07:39:07 PM 494 Views
sorry, i mistook you for a human capable of compassion. my mistake moondog - 04/12/2014 07:47:35 PM 527 Views
Don't worry I don't mistaake you for someone capable of rational thought random thoughts - 04/12/2014 10:56:44 PM 521 Views
The guy is dead due to preexisting medical conditions and for resisting arrest. Anonymous2000 - 04/12/2014 05:11:41 PM 512 Views
watch the video below - the choke hold applied is barred from use by NYPD rules moondog - 04/12/2014 07:43:15 PM 649 Views
The multi-racial grand jury concluded it wasn't a choke hold. *NM* Anonymous2000 - 04/12/2014 07:47:31 PM 270 Views
with secret testimony how do you know for sure? they only chose not to indict moondog - 04/12/2014 07:52:04 PM 527 Views
The grand jury had all the facts, much, much, much more than you could imagine. Anonymous2000 - 04/12/2014 08:00:51 PM 544 Views
the grand jury had all the facts the DA felt they needed to not indict and much much more moondog - 04/12/2014 08:10:26 PM 465 Views
according to you all they needed was the video and if they didn't see that there is a problem *NM* random thoughts - 04/12/2014 10:58:34 PM 318 Views
I find this video much more damning random thoughts - 05/12/2014 05:01:11 AM 709 Views
That's pretty much what a police lieutenant in my hometown said. Cannoli - 05/12/2014 05:42:51 AM 681 Views
where did you get the heart attack from? wikipedia shows it as a homicide, as it should moondog - 04/12/2014 06:32:44 PM 543 Views
Homicide doesn't equal crime, look up the medical/legal definition of the word. *NM* Anonymous2000 - 04/12/2014 07:49:06 PM 261 Views
if only it were possible to get to the facts in a court case to prove one way or the other *NM* moondog - 04/12/2014 07:53:18 PM 314 Views
Even wiki says he died of a heart attack on his way to the hospital random thoughts - 04/12/2014 08:06:00 PM 535 Views
Wikipedia once told me about President McKinley having magical powers & Terry Goodkind being Batman Cannoli - 04/12/2014 11:44:00 PM 571 Views
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