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the problem is that facts are often taken for granted when the police are supplying them moondog Send a noteboard - 04/12/2014 06:25:57 PM

the facts as they are known in this case are:

  • Wilson had zero notice that Brown was involved in a robbery of any kind whatsoever, even the Ferguson Police chief acknowledged that grudgingly before backtracking on his story: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/05/ferguson-chief-lied-about-michael-brown-tape_n_5773420.html

  • Brown died over 130 feet away from Wilson's vehicle, not the 35 ft Wilson keeps/kept claiming

  • Ferguson and St. Louis police departments refused to file a police report of the incident, and when pressed on when it would be available replied it would never be available to the public

the rest of the case is up for debate, although it's quite unusual that Wilson would be allowed four straight hours to paint the picture of the calm and collected cop just trying to make the streets safer for everybody, but Dorian Johnson was cross-examined in an effort to undermine his testimony and tie the shooting to the robbery which has already been established as having zero to do with the altercation between Brown and Wilson.


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The grand jury got all the information that was available, contradictory as it was, and came to that conclusion, so I'm inclined to assume that their conclusion is more likely than the one of Brown's defenders. Which doesn't have to mean Brown's intent had to be homicidal, merely that Wilson had to have a good reason to believe it was.

But the conclusion that American cops are killing civilians at a stupefying rate is inevitable, and regardless of the exact circumstances of this case, something needs to be done about that. Probably people picked the wrong case to make a big deal out of, but the basic point is not wrong. And I think there is more agreement on that broader point than you'd think by just looking at this case, where both sides are just staying in their usual trenches shooting at each other, disputing not just the interpretation but even the facts - it's difficult to swallow your words and change your mind on a topic as sensitive as this one, unless you're a total outsider (like me).

But that law enforcement is increasingly using excessive violence, that SWAT teams are being used for the most absurd purposes, those are points that conservatives can agree with as well, I think.


i wish we had enough critical thinkers in this country to realize that sending SWAT teams in to collect on a parking ticket is an over-excessive use of force. unfortunately, there are too many who are willing to give police a wider and wider leeway to abuse their position of authority and just look the other way.

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Ferguson Grand Jury Decision - Good Call! - 29/11/2014 01:29:14 PM 1255 Views
Grand Juries don't determine guilt or innocence. - 29/11/2014 04:36:35 PM 929 Views
Yes, there were winners and losers..... - 29/11/2014 07:45:33 PM 901 Views
Re: Grand Juries don't determine guilt or innocence. - 30/11/2014 10:56:14 AM 1279 Views
Re: Grand Juries don't determine guilt or innocence. - 01/12/2014 12:56:10 AM 882 Views
Nonsense - 30/11/2014 06:57:39 AM 886 Views
*NM* *NM* - 30/11/2014 07:05:40 AM 454 Views
Yes, Germans sound exactly like the kind of people who pick fights with cops... - 01/12/2014 04:02:02 AM 883 Views
Well... - 01/12/2014 11:03:51 PM 880 Views
and a cryihg shame you don't have such a peice of paper - 02/12/2014 01:37:38 PM 822 Views
LOL - 02/12/2014 04:07:06 PM 819 Views
I didn't know you were fixing the problem - 02/12/2014 07:12:12 PM 824 Views
The problem is the usual one in American politics - people don't even agree on the facts anymore. - 30/11/2014 06:23:34 PM 856 Views
The problem is people are ignoring the facts and the media is leading the charge *NM* - 01/12/2014 01:33:43 PM 536 Views
Bingo..... *NM* - 01/12/2014 02:43:50 PM 401 Views
I agree completely, but probably not for the same reasons. *NM* - 01/12/2014 08:21:46 PM 415 Views
You can't really beliee there are any facts that support the idea the Wilson should be charged? - 01/12/2014 11:38:27 PM 801 Views
I honestly don't feel like discussing that with you, because nuance doesn't seem to be a thing. - 02/12/2014 09:54:53 PM 805 Views
Sorry but I am just have a hard time finding anyone making a valid argument that GJ was wrong - 03/12/2014 02:13:47 PM 853 Views
That isn't my argument. - 03/12/2014 10:04:39 PM 859 Views
Re: That isn't my argument. - 04/12/2014 08:06:38 PM 1026 Views
rampid stupidity it the real problem and thank for demonstraing that - 04/12/2014 11:06:49 PM 1185 Views
I don't care what you say to MD anywhere else, - 05/12/2014 11:29:43 AM 926 Views
How many people on "your" side waited for these facts to make up their mind? - 01/12/2014 08:30:03 PM 824 Views
why all of them of course - 01/12/2014 11:36:33 PM 804 Views
the problem is that facts are often taken for granted when the police are supplying them - 04/12/2014 06:25:57 PM 834 Views
This is as dumb as the other post. *NM* - 02/12/2014 04:14:12 AM 447 Views
Horseshit - 02/12/2014 01:32:07 PM 779 Views

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