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There are enough good arguments for universal insurance that don't involve "rights". Legolas Send a noteboard - 05/11/2014 10:14:52 PM

View original postThat health insurance, like many other things, is like a car or a home? If you have the money to get it, you can buy it yourself.

Actually, you're totally right, health insurance is a lot like car insurance: if you do not have the money to buy it, or simply don't want to spend money on it, that is not only potentially harmful to yourself, but also to others, which is why making it obligatory to get kind of makes sense. Besides the admittedly rare cases of sick untreated people (due to their lack of health insurance) infecting others, there's also the considerable cost to society of having to treat people in ERs who might've been treated in a much cheaper fashion if they'd had insurance allowing them to go see a doctor at an earlier stage, and the even larger cost to society of missing out on the contributions of people who die early or become unable to work due to medical reasons that might've been avoided if they had had insurance to get treatment earlier on. Medicare is really pretty retarded in that sense - fortunes are spent on some people's health once they turn 65, because they couldn't afford comparatively cheap treatment earlier and things got worse and worse, then at 65 suddenly the government makes it its business to do something about it.

And specifically in the case of the United States, where health insurance is so strongly linked to one's employment, there is yet another cost in the sense that people are often prevented from making the employment choices that they would like to make, and where they would be more productive (become an entrepreneur, work for a small local company rather than a big one, quit some job that's making them depressed,...), because they can't afford to lose their health insurance.

I'll add in closing this cliché but still kind of mind-boggling statistic: the USA's public spending on health care, as a share of GDP, is higher than that of most European countries which have universal socialized healthcare. Not even talking about the private spending, which is much higher still in the USA, and very limited in most of those other countries. And yet Americans live (slightly) shorter, have (slightly) higher child mortality rates, and so on. For a country that supposedly doesn't want socialized healthcare, the US certainly manages to spend an astonishing amount of taxpayer money on it, without even getting the results you'd expect.

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/US elections: "I'm scared I'm going to die before [Medicaid expansion] comes" - 04/11/2014 10:15:29 PM 1141 Views
*HA* - 05/11/2014 02:48:22 AM 559 Views
can you explain what that ad is about ? - 05/11/2014 06:25:09 AM 573 Views
it refers to voter registration and IDs - 05/11/2014 08:02:46 AM 600 Views
you summed it up quite nicely, thanks - 05/11/2014 05:15:39 PM 524 Views
Oh please. - 05/11/2014 09:51:32 PM 691 Views
only one party specifically mentions keeping "the wrong people" from voting, though - 05/11/2014 10:10:43 PM 548 Views
What a load of crap - 07/11/2014 04:20:38 AM 543 Views
sorry, i missed where you identifed as a woman in a previous post - 13/11/2014 12:18:42 AM 692 Views
he is refering to all the political ads on tv *NM* - 05/11/2014 05:42:37 PM 246 Views
Who doesn't have to identify themselves? Totally serious. - 05/11/2014 09:40:41 PM 634 Views
the point of ID laws is solely to restrict the votes of specific groups - 05/11/2014 10:07:00 PM 527 Views
Rhode Island's voter ID law was sponsored by a black legislator - 06/11/2014 11:30:57 AM 528 Views
you are obviously not caring to pay attention -- ID laws do more than just require IDs - 06/11/2014 09:37:32 PM 541 Views
You cannot be this much of an idiot. - 07/11/2014 03:40:02 AM 576 Views
Rhode Island's voter ID law was sponsored by a black legislator - 06/11/2014 11:30:58 AM 513 Views
Black people don't have photo ID? Why? - 06/11/2014 05:09:39 PM 546 Views
North Carolina's law forbids student IDs as valid form of ID and does not recognize other state IDs - 06/11/2014 09:41:52 PM 515 Views
Why should out of state college students vote in local elections? - 06/11/2014 10:35:13 PM 529 Views
Re: Why should out of state college students vote in local elections? - 07/11/2014 03:41:36 AM 619 Views
Students are not residents, they are guest - 07/11/2014 04:14:11 AM 603 Views
Re: Students are not residents, they are guest - 07/11/2014 02:33:43 PM 645 Views
Re: Students are not residents, they are guest - 13/11/2014 12:42:38 AM 634 Views
Are you fucking stupid or what? - 20/11/2014 02:52:24 AM 659 Views
please stop with the stupid comparisons of student ID to gun permits - 07/11/2014 04:07:16 AM 557 Views
I'll tell you what it is here... - 06/11/2014 09:57:35 PM 568 Views
Interesting. - 07/11/2014 03:21:48 AM 627 Views
[citation needed] - 12/11/2014 11:58:57 PM 519 Views
mutiple surgries and dozen of trips to er. sounds like she is getting care *NM* - 05/11/2014 05:44:39 PM 259 Views
$500k in debt for no insurance b/c her state decided to spite her to get back at Obama *NM* - 05/11/2014 08:37:58 PM 240 Views
Doesn't it all come back around to the concept... - 05/11/2014 08:47:20 PM 535 Views
There are enough good arguments for universal insurance that don't involve "rights". - 05/11/2014 10:14:52 PM 539 Views
disconnecting employment form insurance would be a great first step - 07/11/2014 03:54:37 AM 587 Views

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