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I certainly don't believe everything they say, no. Legolas Send a noteboard - 27/07/2014 06:43:51 PM

View original postHaniya never accepted a two-state solution. You have to read his words: he accepted the notion of a resolution that saw a Palestinian state in the 1967 borders with a right of return and East Jerusalem for Palestine. However, every time Hamas talks about these "resolutions" they use the word hudna, which is still only a temporary truce that they are willing to execute while they are too weak to destroy Israel.

However, I do indeed believe that once such a long-term "truce", with a functional Palestine state, has been established, and manages to last for a few years, the conflict would likely be over for good. After all, such a Palestinian state wouldn't have a ghost of a chance against Israel in a conventional war on its own, for many decades to come at a minimum, and meanwhile Israel would have time to finally normalize its relations with the Arab nations.

And I also think that Hamas is smart enough to realize that. Which is why I'm not particularly concerned about that distinction you make.

View original postYou also believe the lie that Hamas is a political party. They aren't. If they were a political party, they would oversee elections and be willing to relinquish control if they lost. Any "political party" that doesn't do that is an authoritarian or totalitarian organization.

I wasn't exactly calling them, or Palestine, a model of democracy. The point is, they are bearing political responsibilities, running a state of sorts, and they are aware that this requires a rather different approach than just being a terrorist group - on the one hand it obviously gives them much more power, on the other it restrains them and forces them to act more responsibly.
View original postYour statements reflect a certain naivete in your willingness to engage in moral equivalency. It is one thing for Likud's charter to say that Jewish settlement in Judea and Samaria is to be encouraged or that the Jordan River is Israel's boundary - these are essentially negotiating positions. I could believe the same about Hamas' charter were it not for the genocidal nature of it, which is completely different from anything Likud has ever said: "The time will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews, until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, come on and kill him!"

Of course Likud's charter isn't remotely as radical as what you'll find in Hamas' charter, I never said it was. They are very different parties with very different histories, and the cirumcstances in which their charters were drawn up are also very different. I have no intention of engaging in "moral equivalency", it's primarily practical factors that concern me - the negotiating positions, as you say, the point that I made that political movements who are willing to surrender long-stated goals in the course of a negotiation, are not very likely to officially surrender said goals beforehand.
View original postIf Hamas wanted to moderate, it had ample time to do so. Instead, since its takeover of Gaza in 2007 (which saw over 500 Fatah members murdered), it has regularly fired rockets at Israel, fought a few inconclusive wars, and dug in more extensively to prepare for the next one.

I don't know about "wanted" to moderate, so much. Don't mistake me for someone who thinks Hamas is in any way admirable. But all the same, however grudgingly, they did moderate.
View original postI guess the good news is that Israel seems to understand, after seeing how much Hamas was preparing for future wars rather than attempting to do anything for Gaza's civilians, that it needs to uproot the organization. Perhaps it can hand Gaza over to Fatah and lift the blockade, which would go a lot farther to achieving a two-state solution than talking to an organization that has stated goals of killing all Jews.

I see you completely ignored the part of my post about how it wouldn't exactly help Fatah to be handed the Gaza Strip after Israel has killed a few thousand people (by the time they'd be finished) in it and uprooted Hamas.

Divide and conquer is a fine strategy for a conventional war, but not so much for establishing peace in this kind of unconventional war; you need to have the large majority of the political actors and popular opinion to support the leader who will be signing the peace with you, so that they have the authority to deal with the minority who refuses on their own. But that doesn't work if you make him look like a powerless loser, who is humiliated by you handing him parts of his own state from which you've forcibly ejected his rivals. And to do that mere months after he managed to create a unity government, at least nominally supported by said rivals, well, at that point it almost looks like you're intentionally sabotaging him.

View original postMay the IDF prevail!

I certainly don't want Hamas to prevail, but that doesn't mean it was necessary or remotely smart to do what the IDF is doing.

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Those morons in Gaza (i.e., Hamas) are at it again - - 18/07/2014 04:02:57 PM 1149 Views
If by awesome you mean execrable, then yes, you're right. - 18/07/2014 11:45:53 PM 654 Views
Sounds like someone doesn't like jews! - 19/07/2014 04:24:41 AM 586 Views
It's funny you should say that. - 19/07/2014 09:36:57 AM 667 Views
your criticism would be better applied to Palestine supporters - 19/07/2014 11:50:37 AM 568 Views
My criticism IS also applied to Palestine supporters. It's not an either/or deal. - 19/07/2014 09:03:51 PM 596 Views
Agreed on that much, certainly. - 23/07/2014 03:05:22 AM 721 Views
Well, look who's back in the game! - 23/07/2014 07:44:45 PM 820 Views
Haltingly.... - 07/08/2014 03:41:06 AM 646 Views
The only good thing about ancient interminable wars is that--more-- - 13/06/2015 11:40:48 PM 502 Views
Oh lord. - 22/06/2015 10:08:22 PM 570 Views
"'Dialing for Dollars' is looking for me" - 24/06/2015 04:48:51 AM 644 Views
At the risk of prompting another long ramble, I've no idea what that reference is to. - 24/06/2015 10:39:42 PM 529 Views
"Oh, Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes-Benz?!" - 26/06/2015 12:41:48 PM 505 Views
I'm going to try to shorten and summarize this a bit... - 28/06/2015 11:21:28 PM 845 Views
I couldn't help but overhear... - 19/07/2014 01:13:01 PM 641 Views
Good, I was hoping you'd drop by! - 19/07/2014 08:33:44 PM 756 Views
I strongly beg to differ with your position re: Hamas - 26/07/2014 04:25:54 PM 521 Views
Sorry, I don't see that. - 26/07/2014 08:57:08 PM 608 Views
I guess if you believe the lies of Hamas your position makes sense. - 27/07/2014 03:20:03 PM 553 Views
+1 - 27/07/2014 04:00:05 PM 625 Views
I certainly don't believe everything they say, no. - 27/07/2014 06:43:51 PM 632 Views
the carrot and stick is somewhat apt, although israel should have given way more carrots to date - 22/07/2014 08:57:13 PM 655 Views
So Israel should back the least radical Palestinian faction & construct Palestinian infrastructure? - 23/07/2014 04:51:19 AM 615 Views
yes - 23/07/2014 05:04:58 PM 767 Views
I pretty much agree with everything you said. - 24/07/2014 09:46:22 AM 739 Views
Why do you hate America? - 23/07/2014 02:29:24 AM 621 Views
Bottom line - stop lobbing missles into Israel and the problem is solved. - 28/07/2014 03:35:46 AM 541 Views
It's a circle of violence. Both sides are the villian. - 31/07/2014 03:50:52 AM 657 Views

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