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Agreed on that much, certainly. Joel Send a noteboard - 23/07/2014 03:05:22 AM

I wish I could be as certain about THIS part:


View original postIf I agree for a minute to generalize and talk about "Europe" as a single entity, then I'd say Europe neither loves the Palestinians nor disdains the Jews. Believe it or not, but the Holocaust has in fact wiped out the persistent anti-Semitism that existed even in parts of the mainstream in pre-war Western Europe; and the growing Islamic presence in Europe in recent decades has considerably reduced it even on the far-right where it had survived (I wouldn't really say that's to their credit, though, it's more an "enemy of my enemy is my friend" deal in that last case). In East-Europe it's still somewhat more present in some countries, that's true (but those countries aren't usually very vocal on the topic of Israel, that I've noticed).

I know there are probably more European Jews where you are than anywhere except maybe the UK, and that between the two that is probably 70-80% of ALL European (or at least Western European) Jews. All that said, I still cannot help feeling the Holocaust did not so much wipe out European anti-Semitism as prompt it to export "the Jewish Question" once and for all and count a European anti-Semitic debt going back to Rome paid. In that sense, one could argue Europe was obligated to restore a Jewish nation-state because Europe destroyed it in the FIRST place, for the great crime of demanding independence sought by force when refused.

All that is just an ignorant immigrants impression, yet I cannot shake the strong recurrent feeling that exporting the Jewish Question never expunged Europes anti-Semitism, only prompted support for Palestinians as "anti-Semitism by proxy." One could go blind seeking European leaders denouncing Palestinian terrorism, even at the height of the Cold War, when Israel was a NATO- while Egypt and Syria were Soviet allies regularly and genocidally invading Israel: Even then, Europes NATO-member leaders had naught but condemnation for their own nominal Israeli allies, and excuses for their own nominal (if distant) foes. Maybe after the Munich Olympics—for a few weeks? Still did not justify occupying Gaza and the Golan after the three-nation a few months earlier, right?

That attitude has hardly softened since the Soviet demise removed incentive to support Israel; acknowledgement of Israels rights are ever and always as arguments they entitle Palestinians to the same: Never for Israel itself. Consider that even AFTER the Holocaust, Britain STILL refused to honor its decades-old pledge of an Israeli nation until the political embarrassment of a refugee ship sailing all over the Atlantic rather than accept any home but its own, while Ben Gurions terrorists bombed the King David Hotel to force their hand. After Romes genocidal Diaspora started it all, resulting in two millennia of Inquistion, Blood Libel, Shylocks, Dreyfus Affairs, pogroms, and Pales of Settlement, even the HOLOCAUST was not enough "by itself" to justify Europe restoring the Israeli state it eradicated.

So I do not believe it ended European anti-Semitism; if it had, Israel would have been restored in 1945 rather than 1948, and Europeans would not generally be more sympathetic to a 70-year-old right of return for Palestinians who were never a nation than a 2000-year-old right of return for Israelis who were a nation for centuries.

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This message last edited by Joel on 23/07/2014 at 03:08:22 AM
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If by awesome you mean execrable, then yes, you're right. - 18/07/2014 11:45:53 PM 654 Views
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your criticism would be better applied to Palestine supporters - 19/07/2014 11:50:37 AM 567 Views
My criticism IS also applied to Palestine supporters. It's not an either/or deal. - 19/07/2014 09:03:51 PM 596 Views
Agreed on that much, certainly. - 23/07/2014 03:05:22 AM 721 Views
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