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You assume that the Ukraine's borders should be inviolate. Tom Send a noteboard - 09/03/2014 05:56:45 PM

My starting point is that 1991 was a messy collapse that left borders in need of review, in the Ukraine first and foremost (well, and Belarus really shouldn't be an independent country at all). The territorial disputes that followed the collapse of the Soviet Union do not make it a case of "Russia taking a bite out of their neighbor's territory". It's more a question of why the territory isn't Russian to begin with.

The US, as most nations supporting the status quo in the world, refuses to accept any redrawing of borders if the US doesn't have a hand in that redrawing (e.g., Kosovo). There was no legitimacy to our actions in Serbia and no legitimacy to creating a nation of Kosovo (especially considering it would have been better to give it to Albania, rather than create yet another economic sinkhole postage stamp nation).

The US policy is based on the notion that it was Germany's territorial disputes over ethnic Germans that led to World War II. This is misguided. The overwhelming majority of Germans wanted to see the abrupt and arbitrary borders of 1919 redrawn. Wilhelmine officials agreed with the Nazis on that point, and it was likely that a different social order (run, say, by the DVP) would have done the same thing.

The tension created between revisionist powers and status quo powers is a very dangerous one, and the less the US tries to enforce the status quo, the better off it will be for us.


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You are still ignoring the fact the assurances were made the US and Russia to Ukraine so the actions of the US should in no way invalidate the assurances both countries made to honor the borders of Ukraine. As to why Russia can’t act to protect their national interest that answer to that is by your logic any time a country can come with an argument that their national interest are threatened they can just take a bite out of their neighbors territory.
You have to admit how shallow the argument that that they are just protecting their base is and it sad that we keep hearing it. The base was never threatened so an invasion was not required to protect it. As to the safety of the Russian citizens they do have a valid interest they and if they had sent in observers to protect their citizens that argument might hold up but that isn’t what happened. The Russians have seized complete control and are in the process of illegally seizing a portion of their neighbor’s territory. In none of the examples you stated did the US end up with expanded borders. Using Kant’s categorical imperative would you be willing to accept the argument that believing some of your citizens that you believe might be threatened is justification to invade and seize territory from your neighbors?
As for the mysterious Olga who may or may not have evidence that protesters killed their own people I say it is irrelevant. I neither support not oppose the goals of the protesters but I do support the rights of Ukraine to their national borders and I strongly Russia’s use of this crisis as an excuse to steal territory from their smaller neighbors. The Russian people seem to be wonderful people with a deep and rich culture but their governments is run by thugs and thieves.


Political correctness is the pettiest form of casuistry.

ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius

Ummaka qinnassa nīk!

*MySmiley*
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