Community Messageboard: A lot does indeed depend on the reason for the changes. by Legolas

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A lot does indeed depend on the reason for the changes. Legolas Send a noteboard - 13/01/2014 08:28:23 PM

View original postA bit of context: I work in a small group of 9 people total, run by 3 partners. Over 6 years already. The group is very successful and the partners make quite a bit of money, with 20% annual growth.

View original postThis month, they have instituted the following HR changes:

View original post - everyone must be in the office by 9:00am (used to be much more flexible)

Depends on the work, honestly. For a job that requires contact with customers during business hours, or trading on a stock exchange or other market with limited opening hours, or international contacts with particular time zones, it makes sense that you don't want people working whatever hours they like.

View original post - cannot take more than 10 consecutive business days for vacation (I've taken 12 before, and it was just fine; group runs smoothly and we cover for each other well)

This is indeed silly - arguably even counterproductive, as people taking very long holidays do saddle their colleagues with lots of extra work, but less than people taking lots of short holidays, since then the colleagues have to do an extra effort to take over the absent person's work every single time, as opposed to making that effort just once and then handling it for four whole weeks. On the other hand, for the kind of work where it really is not feasible or acceptable towards the customer to have a substitute handle it, justifying an absence of more than two weeks of the responsible person does become a little hard.

View original postA bunch of additional little (petty) things were also codified and written up as policy:

View original post - leaving earlier than 2pm will count as a 1/2 vacation day

That does seem normal enough to me... even leaving at 2:30 pm would be rather bizarre unless you had started work unusually early for some reason.

View original post - at least a week's notice is required if to take more than 1 vacation/personal day

This, eh, depends on how strictly the rule is enforced. In my company (which, admittedly, lacks a real HR department despite having over a hundred people in the office), we have similar rules, but they are pretty much ignored except when their violation results in real harm to the company, or real trouble for the colleagues who have to cover.

View original postTo be clear, these are not the rules from the big corporation we are a part of, these are much more restrictive and specific. These rules do not come about as a result of any problem or underperformance, just a preemptive strike.

In that case, yeah, you're justified in being demoralized - regardless of whether the rules themselves are really that harsh or not, it is clearly a tightening of the rules that only makes sense when there is a real need for it.

View original postTo me, this is a major departure from previous policies, and very demoralizing. They also come on top of an (aborted) attempt to cut our salaries - to turn 10% of our fixed salary into a bonus verging on annual performance review. There was a revolt in the ranks, and the partners backed down. But I used up all of my clout fighting that salary change, and have nothing left for the vacation change.

View original postEverything about this is infuriating. It's a massive step backwards; it's punitive and restrictive. The max 10 business days off irks me so damn much. I really want to tell them to eff off. But... am I overreacting?

Not really, but as to whether it's smart to pick a new fight...

View original postThe work itself I really like. It's only gotten more interesting lately, and I have a tremendous opportunity right now there if I stick around and work hard - to move up. But, now I know that this move up won't come with better hours or longer vacations, and honestly, longer vacations is my SOLE motivation for anything.

That sucks. Perhaps you can still negotiate longer holidays if you arrange them long enough in advance? Depends again on how strict enforcement will be, I guess.

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Tell me if I'm overreacting or not to these vacation policy changes Aeryn - 12/01/2014 04:17:28 PM 951 Views

Yes, they are reasonable. Palatine - 12/01/2014 04:42:57 PM 991 Views

This stuff made me miss working in a company with an HR department Aeryn - 12/01/2014 06:44:22 PM 654 Views

I personally find HR departments a waste (but that's another issue). Palatine - 13/01/2014 04:41:29 PM 883 Views

They would be reasonable if you were an idiot in a nanny state type job. Tom - 12/01/2014 07:28:41 PM 707 Views

Re: They would be reasonable if you were an idiot in a nanny state type job. Aeryn - 13/01/2014 07:54:28 PM 647 Views

I think a lot depends on what's going on with personnel issues. Cannoli - 13/01/2014 04:26:04 AM 813 Views

You hit the nail on the head Aeryn - 13/01/2014 05:39:46 PM 761 Views

Honestly, they sound pretty reasonable. *NM* Anonymous2000 - 13/01/2014 04:30:58 AM 251 Views

You're not overreacting. Sareitha Sedai - 13/01/2014 03:00:02 PM 685 Views

flexibility should be a two way street random thoughts - 13/01/2014 04:22:24 PM 584 Views

Yep, pretty restrictive. That just shows once again that money isn't everything ironclad - 13/01/2014 04:27:39 PM 697 Views

I wish they asked... Aeryn - 13/01/2014 07:54:58 PM 639 Views

Aren't you kind of in the wrong line of work for that? *NM* Legolas - 13/01/2014 08:07:40 PM 250 Views

Well, perhaps. jh - 13/01/2014 05:00:46 PM 618 Views

A lot does indeed depend on the reason for the changes. Legolas - 13/01/2014 08:28:23 PM 704 Views

Please correct me if I am incorrect, but don't you work in finance or a related field? Stephen - 14/01/2014 11:45:15 PM 663 Views

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<quote id="282472">
<quote id="282437">A bit of context: I work in a small group of 9 people total, run by 3 partners. Over 6 years already. The group is very successful and the partners make quite a bit of money, with 20% annual growth. </quote>

<quote id="282437">This month, they have instituted the following HR changes:</quote>

<quote id="282437"> - everyone must be in the office by 9:00am (used to be much more flexible)</quote>
Depends on the work, honestly. For a job that requires contact with customers during business hours, or trading on a stock exchange or other market with limited opening hours, or international contacts with particular time zones, it makes sense that you don't want people working whatever hours they like.

In my job, everyone who is working that (half) day is required to be in the office (or out on work-related things) between, iirc, 9:30 to 11:30 am, and 2 to 4 pm. The rest is up to you, as long as you reach the required amount of hours per day (and the office does have opening and closing hours at 7 am and 8 pm respectively). Which is fair enough as far as hours go - just annoying that in extremely calm periods they don't let us leave earlier. 
<quote id="282437"> - cannot take more than 10 consecutive business days for vacation (I've taken 12 before, and it was just fine; group runs smoothly and we cover for each other well)</quote>
This is indeed silly - arguably even counterproductive, as people taking very long holidays do saddle their colleagues with lots of extra work, but less than people taking lots of short holidays, since then the colleagues have to do an extra effort to take over the absent person's work every single time, as opposed to making that effort just once and then handling it for four whole weeks. On the other hand, for the kind of work where it really is not feasible or acceptable towards the customer to have a substitute handle it, justifying an absence of more than two weeks of the responsible person does become a little hard. 
<quote id="282437">A bunch of additional little (petty) things were also codified and written up as policy:</quote>

<quote id="282437"> - leaving earlier than 2pm will count as a 1/2 vacation day</quote>
That does seem normal enough to me... even leaving at 2:30 pm would be rather bizarre unless you had started work unusually early for some reason. 
<quote id="282437"> - at least a week's notice is required if to take more than 1 vacation/personal day</quote>
This, eh, depends on how strictly the rule is enforced. In my company (which, admittedly, lacks a real HR department despite having over a hundred people in the office), we have similar rules, but they are pretty much ignored except when their violation results in real harm to the company, or real trouble for the colleagues who have to cover. 
<quote id="282437">To be clear, these are not the rules from the big corporation we are a part of, these are much more restrictive and specific. These rules do not come about as a result of any problem or underperformance, just a preemptive strike. </quote>
In that case, yeah, you're justified in being demoralized - regardless of whether the rules themselves are really that harsh or not, it is clearly a tightening of the rules that only makes sense when there is a real need for it. 
<quote id="282437">To me, this is a major departure from previous policies, and very demoralizing. They also come on top of an (aborted) attempt to cut our salaries - to turn 10% of our fixed salary into a bonus verging on annual performance review. There was a revolt in the ranks, and the partners backed down. But I used up all of my clout fighting that salary change, and have nothing left for the vacation change. </quote>
<quote id="282437">Everything about this is infuriating. It's a massive step backwards; it's punitive and restrictive. The max 10 business days off irks me so damn much. I really want to tell them to eff off. But... am I overreacting?</quote>
Not really, but as to whether it's smart to pick a new fight... 
<quote id="282437">The work itself I really like. It's only gotten more interesting lately, and I have a tremendous opportunity right now there if I stick around and work hard - to move up. But, now I know that this move up won't come with better hours or longer vacations, and honestly, longer vacations is my SOLE motivation for anything. </quote>
That sucks. Perhaps you can still negotiate longer holidays if you arrange them long enough in advance? Depends again on how strict enforcement will be, I guess. 
</quote>

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