Active Users:1105 Time:22/11/2024 02:18:22 PM
Re: I had hoped - Edit 1

Before modification by Isaac at 02/10/2013 12:10:27 PM


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View original postI'm a republican, and a party officer at that, so I agree with the party most of the time and support their actions most of the time and those don't always overlap. The reason I haven't expressed an opinion about the Shutdown is I don't have an opinion on the shutdown, that's not very unusual, I'm often of two minds about our policies. Mostly I just don't see it as a big deal. After the fact people over-analyze the hell out of this stuff, assign blame or victory, and its mostly made up nonsense. Most people didn't a give a damn about prior shutdowns more than during them and a few weeks afterwards. Pundits come out and rewrite history to imply otherwise. If the President blinks before the House does, then it was a good idea, if they blink before he does, then it wasn't. If the GOP leadership thought with good reason base don available data that they had better than coin flip odds of coming out a head then they are right to do this, if not then not.


View original postWell it definitely didn't help him. There were a lot of factors in play on that administration's various spectacular fumbles. At the time the democrat party was not very cohesive.




View original postThanks for the response Isaac. With the power the media has, pundits coming out about past events, can potentially help sway current events, help affect who blinks first, which may be part of the reason why they offer opinions.

Sure, self-fulfilling prophecy and the troops tend to bolt or stand fast based on that. Much of congress, post-Clinton, think a shutdown hurts them more than the president and that's probably why we never saw an attempt under bush after the Dems got the House and senate in 2006. A lot of republicans think this is doomed to failure and a lot of Dems think they can't lose, that perception could become reality very easily. If it does, then I doubt we'll see another shutdown seriously proposed for at least a decade and the card might be permanently deleted from the deck of tricks.


View original postIt will be interesting to see who blinks first, from what I've seen of Obama's presidency, he seems to have had a tendency to blink first in the past, which may make him more or less likely to blink in this instance, than if he hadn't had that history.

I don't think he's so much prone to blink first as that he often assumes he has support that evaporates on him. The senate is where his power remains and senators tend to expect to be treated as equals more than the House does, Presidents always have problems with the Senate whether they have a majority or not if they try to push at them.


View original postCertainly a gamble for GOP, but I think that even if Obama blinks first, there is still a risk that it will overall backfire on the republicans.

It's all stats, this will backfire for some, bolster some, for both sides regardless. It will solidify the GOP with the Tea Party and some other groups which matters. Sometimes its worth losing a few hundred indy/mod votes if it gains you a hundred from a dispirited but vocal base. The Dems have to do that game with the Unions and Greens a lot, hence Keystone, plus the base has a longer memory then the middle anyway. You can piss off a big chunk of the middle to gain a small portion of the base and win most back a year later while retaining the loyalty of that base, who also provide your volunteers and contributions not just your votes.


View original postRegarding the democrats under Jimmy Carter, I think from what I've read of american political history (I tend to like to read odd things ) differing parties at times have had problems with cohesiveness, and with the Tea Party, the GOP seems to be at risk in that regard.

The analogy is fairly apt, the Tea Party is a lot like the Hippy vote of that era, they're numerous, they dislike the government, and they have enthusiasm, but they don't have much cohesive unity or ideology. They can be beneficial swords in the arsenal but you have to juggle them while waiting to strike and you tend to lose hands that way.


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