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It has to be both. Period. Nobody will accept someone else trying to change them - Edit 1

Before modification by nossy at 22/07/2013 07:39:57 PM

if the other side refuses to do their part.


View original postIf we want to change the perception that young black males are violent then the behavior of young black males will need to change. Right or wrong people make judgments about people based on which groups they are perceived to belong to. Everyone does no matter if they want to admit it or not. As long as 6-7% of the population is committing half the violent crime it will be hard to change that. To make matters worse many none violent kids celebrate the gangster look and attitude and tie themselves closer to the idea that young black men are more likely to be violent. Of course not all or even most young black men are violent but the simple fact is people concerned when they are approached by a group of young blacks for a reason and as long as that is true perception will not change no matter how many people are called racist.

Did you not notice that this is addressed in the speech? I have copied the relevant section below.
View original postI have heard many people on tv asking what they should tell their son about keeping this from happening to them. Not once did I near the suggestion of not beating people who you think are following you.

And that's good, right? I'm guessing that means you didn't hear any of those people saying "but, the president compares himself to people who like to beat people, so it's actually probably ok."
View original postI don't know if more can be done to right the very real wrongs of the past and I am under no delusions that things are all better now I just strongly believe the constant victim mentality and refusal to hold individuals responsible for their actions and instead seeing racism ìn is not the solution.

What I'm guessing you'll never agree is that I think the two MUST coexist. A "victim mentality" exists for reasons, not just because people want it. So we have to both acknowledge those reasons AND try to make forward strides. Our arguments on this always come down to the same thing - you can't wait until someone completely stops doing something you don't like before you stop treating them in ways they don't like.
View original postObama is making things worse by making statements that imply he supports that attitude. The president in effect said he could have been the young man who was shot while beating someone. Either or he believes that despite the evidence Martin was an innocent young man gunned down for reason.

Or, he said that he could have been a young man followed for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, but I suppose you can't quite get yourself there. Willful misinterpretation annoys me as much as it annoys you, I imagine.

Did you read the speech? He did talk about the disproportionate number of blacks in jail, and he did say that changes need to be made. He just doesn't let us ignore that there may also be some reasons for that other than that some people are ... what? naturally bad? Read it, then tell me what else you would rather he said. Maybe more "but the people who think these things are wrong, and they should just grow up"?


Now, this isn't to say that the African American community is naïve about the fact that African American young men are disproportionately involved in the criminal justice system; that they’re disproportionately both victims and perpetrators of violence. It’s not to make excuses for that fact -- although black folks do interpret the reasons for that in a historical context. They understand that some of the violence that takes place in poor black neighborhoods around the country is born out of a very violent past in this country, and that the poverty and dysfunction that we see in those communities can be traced to a very difficult history.

And so the fact that sometimes that’s unacknowledged adds to the frustration. And the fact that a lot of African American boys are painted with a broad brush and the excuse is given, well, there are these statistics out there that show that African American boys are more violent -- using that as an excuse to then see sons treated differently causes pain.

I think the African American community is also not naïve in understanding that, statistically, somebody like Trayvon Martin was statistically more likely to be shot by a peer than he was by somebody else. So folks understand the challenges that exist for African American boys. But they get frustrated, I think, if they feel that there’s no context for it and that context is being denied. And that all contributes I think to a sense that if a white male teen was involved in the same kind of scenario, that, from top to bottom, both the outcome and the aftermath might have been different.

Now, the question for me at least, and I think for a lot of folks, is where do we take this? How do we learn some lessons from this and move in a positive direction? I think it’s understandable that there have been demonstrations and vigils and protests, and some of that stuff is just going to have to work its way through, as long as it remains nonviolent. If I see any violence, then I will remind folks that that dishonors what happened to Trayvon Martin and his family. But beyond protests or vigils, the question is, are there some concrete things that we might be able to do.


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