Active Users:1105 Time:22/11/2024 02:16:27 PM
It has to be both. Period. Nobody will accept someone else trying to change them nossy Send a noteboard - 22/07/2013 07:29:15 PM

if the other side refuses to do their part.


View original postIf we want to change the perception that young black males are violent then the behavior of young black males will need to change. Right or wrong people make judgments about people based on which groups they are perceived to belong to. Everyone does no matter if they want to admit it or not. As long as 6-7% of the population is committing half the violent crime it will be hard to change that. To make matters worse many none violent kids celebrate the gangster look and attitude and tie themselves closer to the idea that young black men are more likely to be violent. Of course not all or even most young black men are violent but the simple fact is people concerned when they are approached by a group of young blacks for a reason and as long as that is true perception will not change no matter how many people are called racist.

Did you not notice that this is addressed in the speech? I have copied the relevant section below.
View original postI have heard many people on tv asking what they should tell their son about keeping this from happening to them. Not once did I near the suggestion of not beating people who you think are following you.

Who ARE following you. At any rate, we apparently think it's okish, or the Stand Your Ground laws wouldn't exist.
I'm frankly surprised that you are so strongly against Trayvon. If someone was following you or your kid with potentially malicious intent, how would you react? Would there be no blustery anger at all? At the point this happened, he was still just a kid walking in a neighborhood - not a kid running up to beat anybody who got close.
View original postI don't know if more can be done to right the very real wrongs of the past and I am under no delusions that things are all better now I just strongly believe the constant victim mentality and refusal to hold individuals responsible for their actions and instead seeing racism ìn is not the solution.

What I'm guessing you'll never agree is that I think the two MUST coexist. A "victim mentality" exists for reasons, not just because people want it. So we have to both acknowledge those reasons AND try to make forward strides. Our arguments on this always come down to the same thing - you can't wait until someone completely stops doing something you don't like before you stop treating them in ways they don't like.
View original postObama is making things worse by making statements that imply he supports that attitude. The president in effect said he could have been the young man who was shot while beating someone. Either or he believes that despite the evidence Martin was an innocent young man gunned down for reason.

Or, he said that he could have been a young man followed for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, but I suppose you can't quite get yourself there. Willful misinterpretation annoys me as much as it annoys you, I imagine.

Did you read the speech? He did talk about the disproportionate number of blacks in jail, and he did say that changes need to be made. He just doesn't let us ignore that there may also be some reasons for that other than that some people are ... what? naturally bad? Read it, then tell me what else you would rather he said. Maybe more "but the people who think these things are wrong, and they should just grow up"?


Now, this isn't to say that the African American community is naïve about the fact that African American young men are disproportionately involved in the criminal justice system; that they’re disproportionately both victims and perpetrators of violence. It’s not to make excuses for that fact -- although black folks do interpret the reasons for that in a historical context. They understand that some of the violence that takes place in poor black neighborhoods around the country is born out of a very violent past in this country, and that the poverty and dysfunction that we see in those communities can be traced to a very difficult history.

And so the fact that sometimes that’s unacknowledged adds to the frustration. And the fact that a lot of African American boys are painted with a broad brush and the excuse is given, well, there are these statistics out there that show that African American boys are more violent -- using that as an excuse to then see sons treated differently causes pain.

I think the African American community is also not naïve in understanding that, statistically, somebody like Trayvon Martin was statistically more likely to be shot by a peer than he was by somebody else. So folks understand the challenges that exist for African American boys. But they get frustrated, I think, if they feel that there’s no context for it and that context is being denied. And that all contributes I think to a sense that if a white male teen was involved in the same kind of scenario, that, from top to bottom, both the outcome and the aftermath might have been different.

Now, the question for me at least, and I think for a lot of folks, is where do we take this? How do we learn some lessons from this and move in a positive direction? I think it’s understandable that there have been demonstrations and vigils and protests, and some of that stuff is just going to have to work its way through, as long as it remains nonviolent. If I see any violence, then I will remind folks that that dishonors what happened to Trayvon Martin and his family. But beyond protests or vigils, the question is, are there some concrete things that we might be able to do.

This message last edited by nossy on 22/07/2013 at 07:39:57 PM
Reply to message
"Trayvon Martin could have been me." President Obama - 19/07/2013 11:27:21 PM 1400 Views
My interpretation is that he's being incredibly racist...against blacks - 19/07/2013 11:52:37 PM 727 Views
I think you're right - 19/07/2013 11:54:41 PM 676 Views
From the litlle I heard on NPR I had a couple real problems with it - 20/07/2013 12:53:40 AM 682 Views
Would he just shut up about it already? *pukes a little in mouth* *NM* - 20/07/2013 04:20:07 AM 302 Views
Yeah. As someone who voted for Obama and would do so again, this is embarrassing. - 20/07/2013 10:10:53 AM 594 Views
Ditto. Except I didn't vote for him a second time. - 21/07/2013 01:34:54 AM 692 Views
Does it matter now? Martin is still dead and Zimmerman will stay free. It's over. - 20/07/2013 04:24:43 AM 603 Views
It makes a great deal of difference - 20/07/2013 04:40:55 AM 643 Views
C'mon guys. It's sounding very "I'm not a racist, I swear!" in here. - 20/07/2013 03:32:08 PM 778 Views
I can't like your reply enough. *NM* - 20/07/2013 03:42:00 PM 309 Views
"I am not a racist I swear it" is what we are reduced for not agreeing on race - 20/07/2013 04:44:52 PM 644 Views
No. As I'll say to Isaac in a minute, I'll apologize for lumping everyone in - 20/07/2013 08:06:49 PM 625 Views
for me his about what will work not what is fair - 22/07/2013 06:06:13 PM 702 Views
It has to be both. Period. Nobody will accept someone else trying to change them - 22/07/2013 07:29:15 PM 676 Views
sorry I don't see where he says a change in behaviour is part of the solution - 23/07/2013 06:29:16 PM 575 Views
He did not talk about the case - 23/07/2013 07:32:44 PM 594 Views
A touch over the top don't you think? - 20/07/2013 05:20:21 PM 613 Views
One comment, maybe. If anyone has taken offense - 20/07/2013 09:09:45 PM 626 Views
Re: One comment, maybe. If anyone has taken offense - 20/07/2013 11:53:08 PM 652 Views
As mentioned - 21/07/2013 12:18:14 AM 695 Views
Re: As mentioned - 21/07/2013 02:25:30 PM 612 Views
You just EXACTLY quoted the point I was making - 20/07/2013 06:04:25 PM 690 Views
Em... not so sure I did. - 20/07/2013 10:19:54 PM 544 Views
I think he's wrong for continuing to talk about it, and doing so in this manner - 21/07/2013 06:59:11 AM 719 Views
We will also have to agree to disagree. - 21/07/2013 10:25:13 AM 725 Views
There are more important things for him to be focusing on, I think. That said, I think you're right. *NM* - 21/07/2013 08:16:34 AM 298 Views
There will always be something "more important." *NM* - 21/07/2013 10:25:46 AM 272 Views
That's specious reasoning. - 21/07/2013 12:02:17 PM 576 Views
It is if you sidestep my point. - 21/07/2013 05:15:19 PM 554 Views
I am of two minds on the issue. *edit* - 21/07/2013 02:04:48 PM 629 Views
Well, that's good. I feel like I'm working on 3 or 4 at this point. - 21/07/2013 05:41:21 PM 674 Views
I'm one of those annoying people who corrects others with "biracial". - 22/07/2013 08:03:10 PM 699 Views
That's not appropriate. Obama identifies as black. *NM* - 23/07/2013 06:22:06 AM 330 Views
So do lots of white kids. - 23/07/2013 08:50:12 AM 533 Views
It is the truth, though. - 23/07/2013 06:30:53 PM 591 Views
I do not agree. - 23/07/2013 07:06:33 PM 615 Views
I know, and I find that weird. - 23/07/2013 12:57:39 PM 631 Views
This is a complex issue. - 23/07/2013 01:09:00 PM 548 Views
Because he looks black, he's been treated like a black person. - 23/07/2013 06:28:41 PM 545 Views
Yes - 23/07/2013 07:11:54 PM 711 Views
Perusing. - 24/07/2013 04:02:53 AM 612 Views
That makes sense. Generally, though, one should go by whatever the person in question identifies as. *NM* - 24/07/2013 06:13:28 AM 290 Views
I noticed the press wasn't aboard with idea when it came to Zimmerman - 24/07/2013 12:49:00 PM 581 Views
Which is silly, because anyone can be racist. You are right, though. *NM* - 24/07/2013 10:32:55 PM 282 Views
No, only white people can be racist. /sarcasm - 25/07/2013 04:38:13 PM 616 Views
No, not really. - 26/07/2013 07:40:45 AM 535 Views
My reply to Nossy above. - 24/07/2013 02:25:49 PM 574 Views
As always, the voice of reason when I am about to discount the US as fucking mental. *NM* - 21/07/2013 03:17:15 PM 281 Views
That's not very nice. - 21/07/2013 09:03:55 PM 639 Views
No, probably not. - 21/07/2013 10:01:36 PM 590 Views
Its unfortunate you see us the way you do - 22/07/2013 06:05:30 AM 656 Views
So Obama smoked weed, punched school bus drivers, and got arrested for theft? - 21/07/2013 05:10:26 AM 576 Views
No, but he could have. - 21/07/2013 01:08:26 PM 547 Views

Reply to Message