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One comment, maybe. If anyone has taken offense nossy Send a noteboard - 20/07/2013 09:09:45 PM

I apologize, but I do not feel bad for being angry about this. The bottom section of this reply contains some clarification (I hope), but I do have a bit of a diatribe in the middle, I'm afraid. You know I respect your opinions, so please forgive some of the anger. I couldn't quite manage to tone it down any further.


View original postThere's not that many remarks in this thread and most focused strictly on the President's breaking of custom to discuss a criminal trial that has no connection to him or to a legitimate public figure like a senator caught taking bribes or a CEO caught embezzling pensions. He is our president, and also a lawyer, he should have known to have stuck with the customary line, the one he has usually used, "This is an ongoing criminal case, it wouldn't be proper for me to comment". For violating that, he, the man in charge of enforcing our laws and appointing our senior judges, deserves severe criticism, regardless of his motives.

As far as I can tell, he did not try to change the decision of the court, or use his presidential powers for anything other than hoarding the soap box. It's not a "violation" if it's nothing more than slightly uncommon.
In addition, he didn't attack anyone - he made the effort to discuss the points that some people are having such a difficult time understanding - like SYG, for example. But mostly, he made the attempt to explain why some people are so incensed, and why they might easily jump to the conclusion that this was racist (he doesn't say whether he believes they are correct or not). Excess baggage isn't ignored in relationships, so why do we pretend it couldn't possibly exist here? Or that ignoring it will work?

And it doesn't have no connection to him. For good or for bad, many of the people who helped to elect him are now completely furious with (and feel failed by) our justice system. I do not contest the decision, so that is not what we are discussing, but I think it is completely appropriate for my president to speak on something that has so many people in an uproar. Especially when he is so uniquely placed to see it from both sides. I am willing to agree to disagree.


View original postIf there were remarks in here you fear border on racism, call the speaker out and say why, what you did instead, and it was grossly unfair, was to label everyone who posted above you a racist. There is already a disgustingly excessive habit of people crying racism any time this president is criticized and it is an insult to the very notion of open, reasoned debate.

I can see how you would think that, but I did not intend to label anyone as racist - the intention was to point out that if we consistently speak as though we believe the hurt and anger and history should have faded completely by now, or that anybody who still acts as though they have a right to that anger should just man up, anything we say will have the flavor of racism.

I told MF what I thought of his post, and I have responded to Random above. I did lump Guard in, who said that Obama was being racist against blacks. That's complete bunk, so I'm not going to give it a specific reply. The whole damn point is that whether it was because he was young, or different, or whatever, a boy ended up dead because someone thought he shouldn't be where he was --> AND THAT many people think it was because of racism. Whether you agree with them or not, trying to ignore that it may be a fair point simply marginalizes these people, without making any effort at intelligent discourse. I think that by giving it recognition, Obama brought it up a level - especially because the heart of the speech was that no matter how many books or degrees, etc may separate two individuals (an Obama and a Martin, for example), gut reactions come from somewhere else.

This message last edited by nossy on 20/07/2013 at 10:17:54 PM
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"Trayvon Martin could have been me." President Obama - 19/07/2013 11:27:21 PM 1401 Views
My interpretation is that he's being incredibly racist...against blacks - 19/07/2013 11:52:37 PM 728 Views
I think you're right - 19/07/2013 11:54:41 PM 676 Views
From the litlle I heard on NPR I had a couple real problems with it - 20/07/2013 12:53:40 AM 682 Views
Would he just shut up about it already? *pukes a little in mouth* *NM* - 20/07/2013 04:20:07 AM 302 Views
Yeah. As someone who voted for Obama and would do so again, this is embarrassing. - 20/07/2013 10:10:53 AM 595 Views
Ditto. Except I didn't vote for him a second time. - 21/07/2013 01:34:54 AM 692 Views
Does it matter now? Martin is still dead and Zimmerman will stay free. It's over. - 20/07/2013 04:24:43 AM 604 Views
It makes a great deal of difference - 20/07/2013 04:40:55 AM 644 Views
C'mon guys. It's sounding very "I'm not a racist, I swear!" in here. - 20/07/2013 03:32:08 PM 779 Views
I can't like your reply enough. *NM* - 20/07/2013 03:42:00 PM 309 Views
"I am not a racist I swear it" is what we are reduced for not agreeing on race - 20/07/2013 04:44:52 PM 645 Views
No. As I'll say to Isaac in a minute, I'll apologize for lumping everyone in - 20/07/2013 08:06:49 PM 626 Views
for me his about what will work not what is fair - 22/07/2013 06:06:13 PM 703 Views
It has to be both. Period. Nobody will accept someone else trying to change them - 22/07/2013 07:29:15 PM 676 Views
sorry I don't see where he says a change in behaviour is part of the solution - 23/07/2013 06:29:16 PM 576 Views
He did not talk about the case - 23/07/2013 07:32:44 PM 595 Views
A touch over the top don't you think? - 20/07/2013 05:20:21 PM 614 Views
One comment, maybe. If anyone has taken offense - 20/07/2013 09:09:45 PM 627 Views
Re: One comment, maybe. If anyone has taken offense - 20/07/2013 11:53:08 PM 653 Views
As mentioned - 21/07/2013 12:18:14 AM 696 Views
Re: As mentioned - 21/07/2013 02:25:30 PM 613 Views
You just EXACTLY quoted the point I was making - 20/07/2013 06:04:25 PM 690 Views
Em... not so sure I did. - 20/07/2013 10:19:54 PM 545 Views
I think he's wrong for continuing to talk about it, and doing so in this manner - 21/07/2013 06:59:11 AM 720 Views
We will also have to agree to disagree. - 21/07/2013 10:25:13 AM 726 Views
There are more important things for him to be focusing on, I think. That said, I think you're right. *NM* - 21/07/2013 08:16:34 AM 299 Views
There will always be something "more important." *NM* - 21/07/2013 10:25:46 AM 273 Views
That's specious reasoning. - 21/07/2013 12:02:17 PM 577 Views
It is if you sidestep my point. - 21/07/2013 05:15:19 PM 554 Views
I am of two minds on the issue. *edit* - 21/07/2013 02:04:48 PM 630 Views
Well, that's good. I feel like I'm working on 3 or 4 at this point. - 21/07/2013 05:41:21 PM 675 Views
I'm one of those annoying people who corrects others with "biracial". - 22/07/2013 08:03:10 PM 700 Views
That's not appropriate. Obama identifies as black. *NM* - 23/07/2013 06:22:06 AM 331 Views
So do lots of white kids. - 23/07/2013 08:50:12 AM 534 Views
It is the truth, though. - 23/07/2013 06:30:53 PM 592 Views
I do not agree. - 23/07/2013 07:06:33 PM 616 Views
I know, and I find that weird. - 23/07/2013 12:57:39 PM 631 Views
This is a complex issue. - 23/07/2013 01:09:00 PM 549 Views
Because he looks black, he's been treated like a black person. - 23/07/2013 06:28:41 PM 545 Views
Yes - 23/07/2013 07:11:54 PM 712 Views
Perusing. - 24/07/2013 04:02:53 AM 612 Views
That makes sense. Generally, though, one should go by whatever the person in question identifies as. *NM* - 24/07/2013 06:13:28 AM 291 Views
I noticed the press wasn't aboard with idea when it came to Zimmerman - 24/07/2013 12:49:00 PM 582 Views
Which is silly, because anyone can be racist. You are right, though. *NM* - 24/07/2013 10:32:55 PM 283 Views
No, only white people can be racist. /sarcasm - 25/07/2013 04:38:13 PM 618 Views
No, not really. - 26/07/2013 07:40:45 AM 536 Views
My reply to Nossy above. - 24/07/2013 02:25:49 PM 574 Views
As always, the voice of reason when I am about to discount the US as fucking mental. *NM* - 21/07/2013 03:17:15 PM 282 Views
That's not very nice. - 21/07/2013 09:03:55 PM 640 Views
No, probably not. - 21/07/2013 10:01:36 PM 591 Views
Its unfortunate you see us the way you do - 22/07/2013 06:05:30 AM 657 Views
So Obama smoked weed, punched school bus drivers, and got arrested for theft? - 21/07/2013 05:10:26 AM 577 Views
No, but he could have. - 21/07/2013 01:08:26 PM 547 Views

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