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Please, Please, PLEASE actually read the laws of Florida that I have posted a link to for you. HyogaRott Send a noteboard - 16/07/2013 09:41:15 PM

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If you are going to go on about rule of law, you have to also acknowledge that Martin had his own right of self-defense. If some random stranger followed you in his car, then followed you on foot, never identified himself to you and then started in on interrogating you for no apparent reason, what does that look like to you, the person being followed? The fact that you cannot acknowledge that Martin had his own right to self-defense is mind-boggling. There is no definitive proof that one or the other started the fight they had, but yet you keep insisting on believing the known liar's (Zimmerman's) story, why? The only thing I'm asking for is that Martin has his own right to self-defense, but you keep speaking as though Martin brought everything down on himself. For what purpose would Martin have to put himself in that situation when, for all he can tell, some "creepy-ass cracker" is following him around and making him fearful of his own safety? Neither man knows the other from Adam but only one is allowed to be fearful of his life.

Someone following you does NOT give you a self-defense claim. If someone is following you you can NOT hit them, or otherwise make violent physical contact with them. If you do so you will be arrested for assault.

The laws in your state, if you do not live in Florida, will be similar. You should understand them.

The physical evidence does not contradict, in any way, the narrative of Martin attacking Zimmerman. In fact, it corroborates it.

Even if you extend the benefit of the doubt to the extreme range of granting the possibility that Zimmerman attacked Martin, even with him causing absolutely no damage to him, it still would not completely eliminate Zimmerman claiming self-defense in shooting him after 45 seconds of unresisting (the only damage he manged to cause was violently bashing Martins fist with his face) punishment from Martin. A very credible argument could be made that Martin's self-defense passed into excessive force and became its own assault.

At this point you have just muddied the water to where a reasonable doubt acquittal for Zimmerman becomes a must.

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Zimmerman = Not Guilty Anonymous2000 - 14/07/2013 04:04:07 AM 1776 Views
Any charge, other than stupidity, was rediculous. *NM* HyogaRott - 14/07/2013 04:24:09 AM 502 Views
Stupidity+Death= Manslaughter *NM* Dannymac - 14/07/2013 05:27:39 AM 473 Views
But hey... Dannymac - 14/07/2013 05:35:11 AM 999 Views
And THAT is the scary precendent this case sets for the populace imlad - 14/07/2013 05:28:03 PM 1129 Views
Oh puhleeze... can you get any more rediculous? *NM* HyogaRott - 14/07/2013 07:22:52 PM 623 Views
HyogaRott baby, you are hurting me here. Can you please stop this? Stephen - 14/07/2013 11:29:00 PM 882 Views
If inline spellcheck doesn't catch it, I probably won't either. HyogaRott - 15/07/2013 06:29:29 AM 813 Views
Re: And THAT is the scary precendent this case sets for the populace Cannoli - 14/07/2013 07:32:26 PM 928 Views
you really are small minded little bigot random thoughts - 15/07/2013 03:57:01 AM 900 Views
+1 - Seriously has imlad always been this nuts? *NM* Anonymous2000 - 15/07/2013 04:32:33 AM 536 Views
Your reply is partisan and obnoxious. The Shrike - 15/07/2013 02:15:13 PM 903 Views
So it was okay that he was on top of a guy, pounding his head into the pavement? Cannoli - 14/07/2013 06:45:17 PM 904 Views
If you can believe Zimmerman's side of the story is 100% truth, I have a bridge for sale... Jay Sherman - 15/07/2013 05:35:08 PM 1002 Views
do you have actual evidence to support zimmerman lied? *NM* random thoughts - 16/07/2013 05:43:42 PM 503 Views
Sure Jay Sherman - 16/07/2013 06:49:20 PM 786 Views
Re: Sure HyogaRott - 16/07/2013 07:53:27 PM 946 Views
Re: Sure Jay Sherman - 16/07/2013 10:07:13 PM 985 Views
Re: Sure HyogaRott - 17/07/2013 03:26:15 AM 924 Views
Silly post - following someone around is not legal justification for physical assault. Anonymous2000 - 15/07/2013 12:47:54 AM 813 Views
And lying about self-defense should not be grounds for acquittal of all charges, but there you go *NM* Jay Sherman - 15/07/2013 05:43:15 PM 555 Views
I think it all really has to do with reasonable doubt Fox and Ravens - 16/07/2013 01:08:24 PM 889 Views
The burden of proof should have been on the shooter to prove lethal force was necessary Jay Sherman - 16/07/2013 06:52:17 PM 751 Views
So, you prefer "guilty until proven innocent"? Anonymous2000 - 16/07/2013 06:54:56 PM 757 Views
Yes, and I also eat babies for breakfast and make sure I kick at least one puppy a day *facepalm* Jay Sherman - 16/07/2013 07:13:11 PM 1012 Views
Nope, you have the US legal system COMPLETELY backwards. *NM* HyogaRott - 16/07/2013 07:54:51 PM 527 Views
No. You are completely wrong. HyogaRott - 16/07/2013 08:07:25 PM 764 Views
Re: The burden of proof should have been on the shooter to prove lethal force was necessary Fox and Ravens - 16/07/2013 07:18:36 PM 830 Views
Re: The burden of proof should have been on the shooter to prove lethal force was necessary Jay Sherman - 16/07/2013 07:21:42 PM 851 Views
Re: The burden of proof should have been on the shooter to prove lethal force was necessary Fox and Ravens - 16/07/2013 07:30:39 PM 862 Views
The kid decided to beat a man who had a gun and got shot for it random thoughts - 15/07/2013 03:46:38 AM 879 Views
In a sane world, here is how their interaction plays out Jay Sherman - 15/07/2013 05:44:26 PM 843 Views
Yes. And the fact that he didn't simply ask him what he was doing, tells me he was racial profiling MonCul - 15/07/2013 08:59:41 PM 836 Views
The only way that statement makes sense is if it is sarcasm random thoughts - 16/07/2013 12:46:59 PM 787 Views
You are suggesting that it is better to shoot first rather than engage in diplomacy Jay Sherman - 16/07/2013 07:05:32 PM 852 Views
And you continue to ignore all the evidence that supports the theory that Martin attacked Zimmerman HyogaRott - 16/07/2013 07:20:55 PM 824 Views
You are defending a known liar with a history of domestic violence Jay Sherman - 16/07/2013 07:23:11 PM 913 Views
Look at A2K's post below Fox and Ravens - 16/07/2013 07:34:11 PM 893 Views
Actually I am not defending anyone (except the rule of law). HyogaRott - 16/07/2013 08:00:38 PM 839 Views
You keep insisting that Martin started the fight, giving him no chance of his own self-defense right Jay Sherman - 16/07/2013 09:25:17 PM 801 Views
Please, Please, PLEASE actually read the laws of Florida that I have posted a link to for you. HyogaRott - 16/07/2013 09:41:15 PM 831 Views
I have read the laws you linked to, I fail to see how they cannot also apply to Martin Jay Sherman - 16/07/2013 10:40:46 PM 799 Views
You failed to identify any laws. *NM* Fox and Ravens - 16/07/2013 10:49:20 PM 481 Views
I saved it for the reply to Isaac below if you really need it *NM* Jay Sherman - 16/07/2013 11:07:53 PM 618 Views
Re: I have read the laws you linked to, I fail to see how they cannot also apply to Martin HyogaRott - 17/07/2013 03:41:58 AM 827 Views
And tomorrow I get to preach about the Good Samaritan. Dannymac - 14/07/2013 05:26:50 AM 1064 Views
Where's your forgiveness?? Judge not lest ye be judged. Cannoli - 14/07/2013 07:10:14 PM 828 Views
Did I say a thing about Zimmerman? No. Dannymac - 14/07/2013 08:44:26 PM 966 Views
Oh my gosh. I'm so sorry. Which neighborhood watch were you referring to? Cannoli - 15/07/2013 12:46:44 AM 929 Views
Float your concept of grace in front of your priest sometime. Dannymac - 15/07/2013 04:31:34 AM 799 Views
Danny... Urza - 15/07/2013 01:32:03 PM 896 Views
What concept of grace is that? Where did I discuss anything remotely touching on grace? Cannoli - 19/07/2013 12:10:12 PM 813 Views
Time to climb to the roof of the city morgue and light the Dexter signal. *NM* Mndrew - 15/07/2013 04:41:35 AM 582 Views
You'd think the rain of venom in here would make everyone's soapbox too slippery to stand on Isaac - 15/07/2013 01:05:41 PM 844 Views
+1 *NM* Macharius - 15/07/2013 06:40:15 PM 558 Views
would that be true for most of politics as well? *NM* random thoughts - 16/07/2013 12:58:33 PM 522 Views
Depends on the case, but those aren't individual life and death criminal trials Isaac - 16/07/2013 01:52:00 PM 763 Views
when the president gets involved it is safe to polotics are at play. random thoughts - 16/07/2013 06:23:54 PM 817 Views
That's not an unfair remark but it justifies criticizing him, not also getting involved in the case Isaac - 16/07/2013 06:59:53 PM 829 Views
When a case shows glaring holes in the law, it should by nature cause those laws to be reconsidered Jay Sherman - 16/07/2013 07:18:57 PM 923 Views
I'm not sure what those 'glaring holes' are, but a specific person shouldn't be needed to show them Isaac - 16/07/2013 08:18:38 PM 822 Views
To assist you with Isaac's request, here is the link to the Laws in Florida HyogaRott - 16/07/2013 08:23:14 PM 847 Views
It is a bit difficult to not use the case when the specificity of the case is the problem.... Jay Sherman - 16/07/2013 11:06:59 PM 892 Views
I sympathize with that but I think it remains a moral necessity to do so Isaac - 17/07/2013 12:14:39 AM 957 Views
Re: I sympathize with that but I think it remains a moral necessity to do so Jay Sherman - 17/07/2013 05:29:56 PM 957 Views
You are asking for what already exists, and are/were in force at the time. HyogaRott - 17/07/2013 06:33:54 PM 958 Views
I think you've over-personalized this case Isaac - 17/07/2013 08:00:50 PM 877 Views
I think this case is simply the closest example at hand of a perceived lack of justice Jay Sherman - 17/07/2013 10:34:38 PM 931 Views
Re: I think this case is simply the closest example at hand of a perceived lack of justice Isaac - 18/07/2013 01:39:17 AM 1071 Views
Jury instructions HyogaRott - 18/07/2013 04:12:29 AM 1022 Views
Jury Instructions 2 HyogaRott - 18/07/2013 06:22:33 PM 879 Views
Jury Instruction 3 - w/ link to pdf of model FL jury instruction for all criminal cases HyogaRott - 18/07/2013 09:51:47 PM 853 Views
I just want to comment on two points from your reply Jay Sherman - 19/07/2013 09:47:06 PM 783 Views
I'm pretty throughly exhausted of this Isaac - 19/07/2013 10:46:22 PM 890 Views
Your logical error is failing to realize that me following you does NOT meet the statutes HyogaRott - 17/07/2013 04:01:52 AM 847 Views
Why do you insist on stating things that have been demonstrated to be false? HyogaRott - 16/07/2013 08:19:08 PM 638 Views
Nice. Legolas - 16/07/2013 09:01:50 PM 975 Views
Thanks Isaac - 16/07/2013 09:48:00 PM 809 Views
Well said. Avendesora - 17/07/2013 02:25:36 PM 974 Views
it is possible to discuss a case based on what the evidence shows random thoughts - 17/07/2013 06:03:05 PM 964 Views
Of course it is possible, one just fails to see how it can serve any good end Isaac - 17/07/2013 09:43:02 PM 830 Views
Exactly. *NM* Avendesora - 18/07/2013 02:08:25 AM 588 Views
That just brings us full circle to my orignal reply to you random thoughts - 18/07/2013 02:52:15 AM 866 Views
Re: That just brings us full circle to my orignal reply to you Isaac - 18/07/2013 04:09:51 AM 980 Views
are agree with your general concept random thoughts - 18/07/2013 05:20:41 PM 1105 Views
My concern all along has been what the laws actually are, and to clear the air of the BS. HyogaRott - 18/07/2013 06:06:21 PM 838 Views
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/frame_game/2013/07/trayvon_martin_verdict_racism_hat Avendesora - 18/07/2013 02:04:36 AM 914 Views
Good. The Shrike - 15/07/2013 02:11:12 PM 798 Views
Perhaps one day black people will have the same rights as whites in the US Jay Sherman - 15/07/2013 05:30:00 PM 966 Views
Congratulations on making one of the dumbest statemets of the year. *NM* HyogaRott - 15/07/2013 09:00:46 PM 564 Views
You have tried retroatcively making Martin a criminal here, despite him doing nothing wrong Jay Sherman - 15/07/2013 10:52:32 PM 852 Views
I really shouldn't bother but I will try one more time to introduce you to rational thought. HyogaRott - 16/07/2013 05:31:12 AM 746 Views
So you support attacking creepy crackers who you think are following you? random thoughts - 16/07/2013 12:56:52 PM 847 Views
The law suggests that if I fear for my safety, I am justified in attacking first in self-defense Jay Sherman - 18/07/2013 11:00:58 PM 917 Views
there is zero evidience to support that assumption random thoughts - 19/07/2013 04:25:15 AM 785 Views
There is zero evidence to support Zimmerman's version of their initial encounter Jay Sherman - 19/07/2013 09:32:24 PM 853 Views
Sorry but you have your facts wrong Martin was identified as the person top random thoughts - 20/07/2013 01:32:00 AM 796 Views
Let's see - Martin was using drugs..... Anonymous2000 - 16/07/2013 04:56:13 PM 840 Views
Does that mean he should have been hunted down and shot? *NM* Stephen - 16/07/2013 05:22:43 PM 514 Views
He wasn't, so your question is irrelevant. Anonymous2000 - 16/07/2013 05:37:27 PM 766 Views
Funny how black victims are rare enough to be famous. Cannoli - 19/07/2013 12:24:12 PM 779 Views
Please cite the legal statutes Trayvon Martin violated before Zimmerman approached him Jay Sherman - 19/07/2013 10:24:59 PM 880 Views
Do you have any actual facts to prove Zimmerman mad his story or is it pure bias? random thoughts - 20/07/2013 04:21:55 PM 839 Views
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