Active Users:1310 Time:21/09/2026 01:24:41 PM
Back to Messageboard Post New Thread Search Help Stats Rules
Yes it was very complex and the Crusaders were not saints (even the sainted ones) random thoughts Send a noteboard - 29/05/2013 04:15:57 AM

They were some ruthless bastards without a doubt. I was sinply objecting the over simplified notion that one day the Crusders just up and decided to attack the poor Muslims who were minding their business.

The other point I was trying to make is that the West and the Middle started off on fairly even footing and Islam was slowing left behind as the European society grew in leaps and bounds. As you mentioned these cultures interacted to fair degree why did the Muslims nations get left so far behind? It was not becuase they were colonized.

Reply to message
Maybe it is time to start treating muslims a little differently? Anonymous2000 - 23/05/2013 03:55:28 AM 3091 Views
Nah, you're just a bigot. *NM* Ghavrel - 23/05/2013 08:21:33 AM 1025 Views
Yes, I am against religions that call for violence. *NM* Anonymous2000 - 23/05/2013 12:23:31 PM 943 Views
Wasn't aware you were against Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Zoroastrianism, Shinto... *NM* Ghavrel - 23/05/2013 12:59:04 PM 989 Views
Where does Christianity call for violence? Jeordam - 23/05/2013 03:55:11 PM 1583 Views
Dueteronomy 13: 1-5 states that you must kill prophets of other religions. Hieshyn - 23/05/2013 07:44:48 PM 1697 Views
The Old Testament is not Christianity. It is where Christianity CAME from. *NM* HyogaRott - 23/05/2013 09:25:12 PM 947 Views
FALSE! Dannymac - 24/05/2013 01:41:50 PM 1715 Views
*sigh* And in fulfilling the "law" he created a new covenant which supplanted the old.. HyogaRott - 24/05/2013 06:09:43 PM 1665 Views
All the death of Christ did was attone for the sins of the world. Hieshyn - 26/05/2013 03:00:26 AM 1899 Views
Sorry, you are wrong. HyogaRott - 28/05/2013 04:17:51 PM 1683 Views
...I can think of a rather larger difference. Starts with J and ends with S. *NM* Ghavrel - 28/05/2013 11:54:28 PM 1027 Views
Yeah, but not really, both religions acknowledge his existence, but differ on his role. HyogaRott - 29/05/2013 06:00:03 PM 1685 Views
Net result: All of God's children can enter into Heaven. Hieshyn - 30/05/2013 05:26:20 PM 1906 Views
No. The New Covenant SUPPLEMENTS, not supplants, the Old. Joel - 12/08/2013 02:45:55 AM 1971 Views
Ok....and? Jeordam - 23/05/2013 10:36:55 PM 1555 Views
You asked for an example, I gave one. I'm not here to argue with you. *NM* Hieshyn - 26/05/2013 02:57:27 AM 951 Views
You might want to slap some qualifiers on there *NM* Isaac - 23/05/2013 07:50:43 PM 970 Views
Actually, I very intentionally didn't put any qualifiers on that... Jeordam - 23/05/2013 10:38:24 PM 1614 Views
The Cleansing of the Temple shows a legitimized use of physical force. *NM* Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 05:05:55 AM 1014 Views
Oh, boo hoo.... Jeordam - 24/05/2013 03:50:18 PM 1659 Views
LOL. Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 04:45:50 PM 1600 Views
Violence.... Jeordam - 24/05/2013 05:32:47 PM 1640 Views
Whipping people to drive them away of something is violence. It's not negotiable. Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 06:06:42 PM 1481 Views
You are something... Jeordam - 24/05/2013 06:29:03 PM 1563 Views
We've gone from "Where does Christianity call for violence?" to "not all violence is bad." *NM* Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 09:09:30 PM 1016 Views
To be fair, that is a good journey to make. Joel - 12/08/2013 02:51:17 AM 1583 Views
Also, spanking has been pretty soundly debunked as good parenting. Maybe not a good analogy. *NM* Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 06:16:18 PM 976 Views
Because children are more behaved now.... Jeordam - 24/05/2013 06:21:43 PM 1518 Views
I don't favor spanking but the studies 'debunking it' are mostly 'bunk' Isaac - 24/05/2013 10:29:28 PM 1609 Views
Yes. nossy - 24/05/2013 10:42:51 PM 1527 Views
Re: Yes. Isaac - 25/05/2013 12:22:56 AM 1615 Views
Congratulations; you now understand why (or one reason) my posts tend to run long. Joel - 12/08/2013 02:53:24 AM 1807 Views
You know better than that. Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 06:52:32 AM 1599 Views
I think you just claimed that my statement as to my opinion is anecdotal evidence of that opinion Isaac - 25/05/2013 09:26:21 AM 1690 Views
I was talking about your reference to your upbringing as relevant to the statistical trend. *NM* Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 09:49:19 AM 918 Views
Yes, but I wasn't claiming it was relevant in that way Isaac - 25/05/2013 10:15:52 AM 1549 Views
... ? *NM* Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 12:58:43 PM 979 Views
I couldn't remember the code for *NM* Isaac - 25/05/2013 07:57:48 PM 908 Views
I wouldn't belong to any other kind of religion. Cannoli - 25/05/2013 01:21:45 AM 1577 Views
And the night was finished with a mob of white men attacking the police in the name of bigotry snoopcester - 23/05/2013 09:51:02 AM 1476 Views
In the name of a religion that preaches violence? Anonymous2000 - 23/05/2013 12:21:59 PM 1638 Views
Islam "preaches" violence just about as much as Christianity does. Nebhead - 23/05/2013 12:46:00 PM 1616 Views
it's actually pretty funny because many people understand Islam to, derivatively, mean peace Fox and Ravens - 23/05/2013 01:44:18 PM 1608 Views
Your argument is logically flawed Tom - 23/05/2013 02:02:33 PM 1689 Views
Re: Your argument is logically flawed Fox and Ravens - 23/05/2013 02:34:22 PM 1706 Views
No, it actaully does not. HyogaRott - 23/05/2013 01:51:51 PM 1667 Views
Maybe they will be, I don't know, KILLED for standing up Nighthawk - 23/05/2013 02:24:59 PM 1492 Views
Exactly HyogaRott - 23/05/2013 03:52:25 PM 1622 Views
Couple of things nossy - 23/05/2013 08:13:57 PM 1934 Views
Unfortunately they are NOT consistant in their messaging... see my link HyogaRott - 23/05/2013 09:30:53 PM 1773 Views
Well, "consistent" doesn't mean "never says things HyogaRott doesn't support." nossy - 23/05/2013 09:46:51 PM 1549 Views
There is a difference between putting forth a good PR spin occasionally and making a stand. HyogaRott - 24/05/2013 01:55:48 AM 1577 Views
Really? Of all the criticisms you could make of Qaradawi, you whine about that? Legolas - 23/05/2013 09:58:50 PM 1605 Views
I think the key point there is that the MCB supported him for a visa in spite of that... Isaac - 23/05/2013 11:05:14 PM 1615 Views
So much for my attempt to bring a little levity to things. Legolas - 24/05/2013 08:07:24 PM 1633 Views
My ability to detect humor and sarcasm in writing is very sporadic Isaac - 24/05/2013 10:28:03 PM 1490 Views
That's a shame. Legolas - 24/05/2013 11:55:37 PM 1450 Views
Re: That's a shame. Isaac - 25/05/2013 02:25:31 AM 1481 Views
Re: That's a shame. Legolas - 25/05/2013 12:17:13 PM 1442 Views
Sure, I'll bite. Legolas - 23/05/2013 09:23:54 PM 1650 Views
Until the "unwashed masses" no longer show up dancing in the streets... HyogaRott - 23/05/2013 09:40:59 PM 1542 Views
I hope you like black and white. nossy - 23/05/2013 09:50:03 PM 1452 Views
Not sure which point you think I missed that I should have responded to... HyogaRott - 24/05/2013 01:52:20 AM 1565 Views
I think I must have confused you. nossy - 24/05/2013 08:46:42 PM 1441 Views
I suppose that depends on which "points" precisely you thought you were making. Legolas - 23/05/2013 09:54:55 PM 1515 Views
Not really HyogaRott - 24/05/2013 02:36:41 AM 1545 Views
Yawn. Bored now. Legolas - 24/05/2013 08:18:27 PM 1483 Views
whatever *NM* HyogaRott - 28/05/2013 04:18:56 PM 856 Views
Do "unwashed masses" publicly APOLOGIZING for terrorism count? Joel - 12/08/2013 03:04:56 AM 1782 Views
Re: No, it actaully does not. Stephen - 24/05/2013 02:29:04 AM 1650 Views
Now let's not start with bullshit here Tom - 23/05/2013 01:54:48 PM 1884 Views
Tom, this is a rare occurance when we agree. HyogaRott - 23/05/2013 03:59:49 PM 1469 Views
That may be so, but the response was addressed to Ben. Tom - 23/05/2013 04:13:47 PM 1580 Views
Oops, my bad messed up reading the discussion tree... HyogaRott - 23/05/2013 06:15:34 PM 1527 Views
Excellent post - anyone that thinks all religions are the same is a complete moron. Anonymous2000 - 24/05/2013 03:32:26 AM 1710 Views
I don't approve of a great deal of popular Islamic thought. Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 05:13:51 AM 1735 Views
My thoughts exactly. *NM* ironclad - 24/05/2013 09:13:18 AM 877 Views
I agree. *NM* Stephen - 24/05/2013 12:05:46 PM 961 Views
Do you think that it will truly happen? Jeordam - 24/05/2013 05:47:50 PM 1650 Views
Might have something to do with colonialists ruining everything they can get their hands on. Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 06:09:13 PM 1571 Views
The first step on the road to recovery is aknowledging your responsibility for where you are and do HyogaRott - 24/05/2013 06:22:42 PM 1542 Views
Oh, so its our fault... Jeordam - 24/05/2013 06:38:14 PM 1522 Views
It's always our fault *NM* ßelals Girl - 24/05/2013 07:40:24 PM 1059 Views
In general, I agree nossy - 24/05/2013 09:01:53 PM 1677 Views
That word "our" is interesting, don't you think? Legolas - 24/05/2013 09:09:24 PM 1552 Views
That was beautiful. *NM* Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 09:12:09 PM 982 Views
No, Ghavrel was doing that ßelals Girl - 25/05/2013 12:03:09 AM 1625 Views
I'm sure we all do it, that's kind of the point. Legolas - 25/05/2013 12:26:25 AM 1480 Views
but apparently it's only okay for some groups/people and not others. ßelals Girl - 25/05/2013 02:20:21 AM 1660 Views
Exactly. Tom - 25/05/2013 06:26:57 AM 1598 Views
Hyperbole? nossy - 25/05/2013 09:57:56 PM 1447 Views
Has anyone ever told you that? Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 10:33:32 PM 1719 Views
No, I really don't think so. Legolas - 25/05/2013 11:18:05 AM 1512 Views
*bashes face against keyboard in frustration* ßelals Girl - 25/05/2013 09:28:58 PM 1453 Views
Perhaps I should bow out and let Ghavrel speak for himself, then. Legolas - 25/05/2013 09:53:28 PM 1628 Views
It's accurate. *NM* Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 10:25:04 PM 943 Views
Re: but apparently it's only okay for some groups/people and not others. nossy - 25/05/2013 09:49:48 PM 1530 Views
Re: but apparently it's only okay for some groups/people and not others. ßelals Girl - 26/05/2013 12:48:45 AM 1644 Views
Hm nossy - 26/05/2013 10:10:49 AM 1596 Views
Also, yeah. Historically oppressive groups aren't equal to historically oppressed groups. Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 10:31:58 PM 1609 Views
Too simplistic AND a blatant justification for double standards I thought you didn't have ßelals Girl - 26/05/2013 01:02:07 AM 1554 Views
That's not racism. Racism requires systematic oppression. *NM* Ghavrel - 26/05/2013 01:14:08 AM 927 Views
No ßelals Girl - 26/05/2013 01:57:11 AM 1608 Views
Where whitey firmly belongs, in no small part because of posts like that. Ghavrel - 26/05/2013 02:00:59 AM 1559 Views
Lulz, you're claiming every member of a group deserves something because of what I said? ßelals Girl - 26/05/2013 02:11:36 AM 1550 Views
And now you know how Muslims feel. *NM* Ghavrel - 26/05/2013 03:48:33 AM 979 Views
I already knew ßelals Girl - 26/05/2013 04:02:02 AM 1501 Views
Just about every group has historically oppressed and BEEN oppressed at some time. Joel - 12/08/2013 04:00:54 AM 1627 Views
No. Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 10:28:24 PM 1519 Views
Oh, I don't think he's talking about past "colonialism" only. Tom - 25/05/2013 06:18:11 AM 1555 Views
Possibly. Some people do, to be sure, and there is some truth in that view. Legolas - 25/05/2013 11:27:36 AM 1432 Views
What a load of bullshit. Tom - 25/05/2013 06:14:02 AM 1531 Views
I don't think you can reasonably claim to separate Salafi thought from the geopolitics of the time. Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 10:23:03 PM 1553 Views
This is why I want to get the HELL out of there. Joel - 12/08/2013 04:16:39 AM 1663 Views
The difference with Islam is they lost the empire game but they were conquers random thoughts - 27/05/2013 12:42:05 AM 1658 Views
I'm gonna have to disagree with some of that. Legolas - 27/05/2013 07:06:53 PM 1507 Views
Yes it was very complex and the Crusaders were not saints (even the sainted ones) random thoughts - 29/05/2013 04:15:57 AM 1612 Views
Fair enough on all counts, then. *NM* Legolas - 29/05/2013 07:37:34 PM 909 Views
No, it had a bunch of opportunistic brown folks systematically dismantling it for centuries. Joel - 12/08/2013 03:43:00 AM 1565 Views
Some of my ancestors lived and caved and bashed each over the heads with rocks random thoughts - 26/05/2013 04:38:56 PM 1549 Views
Well yes. nossy - 26/05/2013 05:08:08 PM 1492 Views
I would prefer to say that random thoughts - 27/05/2013 01:26:57 AM 1694 Views
Of course you would. nossy - 27/05/2013 10:19:46 AM 1614 Views
I in no way support profiling people based on race or religion random thoughts - 29/05/2013 04:11:01 AM 1704 Views
Ok. nossy - 29/05/2013 08:54:34 PM 1700 Views
I think about the evolution of Western religion a lot. Joel - 12/08/2013 03:23:37 AM 1940 Views
There has been 14,000+ terrorist actions in the name of Islam since 9/11. Anonymous2000 - 24/05/2013 03:30:30 AM 1758 Views
That isn't a grown up answer. snoopcester - 23/05/2013 04:35:16 PM 1621 Views
Re: In the name of a religion that preaches violence? ßelals Girl - 23/05/2013 07:28:42 PM 1584 Views
His head will only be chopped off is he draws or insults Muhammad! *NM* Anonymous2000 - 24/05/2013 03:34:21 AM 965 Views
What does he have to do to get on TV? *NM* ßelals Girl - 24/05/2013 07:45:53 PM 898 Views
Statistically snoopcester - 24/05/2013 10:22:29 AM 1657 Views
What kind of horrifying bugs to you guys HAVE over there??? ßelals Girl - 24/05/2013 02:13:23 PM 1655 Views
Hardly any snoopcester - 24/05/2013 02:16:46 PM 1775 Views
Your solution is profiling...because it's time to *stop* thinking all folks are the same? *NM* Sareitha Sedai - 23/05/2013 02:36:32 PM 873 Views
I don't think we've ever encouraged people to think all folks are the same Isaac - 23/05/2013 07:29:54 PM 1494 Views
"Perhaps it's time to stop thinking all folks are the same?" ~A2k Sareitha Sedai - 23/05/2013 07:49:12 PM 1476 Views
I think he's pointing to the encuragement of willful blindedness with that remark Isaac - 23/05/2013 08:15:55 PM 1519 Views
I think probably not. nossy - 23/05/2013 07:57:53 PM 1559 Views
See Tom's post above for the facts..... *NM* Anonymous2000 - 24/05/2013 03:36:18 AM 892 Views
That your original post was absurd? Thank you, but I got that on my own. *NM* nossy - 24/05/2013 09:09:21 PM 879 Views
It shows what a silly little fool you are, but that's your choice. *NM* Anonymous2000 - 24/05/2013 09:19:04 PM 883 Views
Hey man, you're the one who told me Tom's post had the facts. nossy - 24/05/2013 09:20:53 PM 1490 Views
It means exactly what I said. He did a great job! *NM* Anonymous2000 - 24/05/2013 09:23:44 PM 920 Views
Yes, he did. nossy - 24/05/2013 09:30:42 PM 1507 Views
Also, don't tell him I said I take him seriously. *NM* nossy - 24/05/2013 09:34:59 PM 958 Views
But wouldn't religion-based profile activities... Jeordam - 23/05/2013 10:54:33 PM 1460 Views
My brain is slow right now, but I think I completely agree. nossy - 23/05/2013 11:00:31 PM 1586 Views
You mean like this? Larry - 24/05/2013 08:15:16 PM 1682 Views
Sorry bu the comparison isn't valid random thoughts - 25/05/2013 09:50:34 PM 1500 Views
+1 - Larry is an honest guy and will realize his error. *NM* Anonymous2000 - 25/05/2013 10:53:14 PM 907 Views
Numbers alone do not change the validity of such Larry - 25/05/2013 11:15:17 PM 1559 Views
Yes it does. Anonymous2000 - 26/05/2013 12:23:27 AM 1570 Views
*sigh* Larry - 26/05/2013 12:46:49 AM 1430 Views
I think asking most Americans for recognition of a non-binary political paradigm is a bit much. *NM* Ghavrel - 26/05/2013 01:16:30 AM 923 Views
no liberalisn is sane and well thought in comparison random thoughts - 26/05/2013 04:04:39 PM 1475 Views
no but they do tell a story random thoughts - 26/05/2013 04:27:26 PM 1385 Views
UPDATE - Cleric/Teacher of one of the murderers praises him for "courage". Anonymous2000 - 24/05/2013 09:22:24 PM 1581 Views
Do you have a functional link? *NM* Stephen - 25/05/2013 12:19:01 AM 927 Views
The link works for me (Yahoo news) - here is the text. Anonymous2000 - 25/05/2013 02:05:41 AM 1765 Views
Re: Maybe it is time to start treating muslims a little differently? dart_board - 27/05/2013 02:28:31 PM 2297 Views
Please have a look at the attached list and tell me who "they" are, exactly. nossy - 27/05/2013 03:22:41 PM 1632 Views
Just as a little aside Tom - 28/05/2013 12:51:48 AM 1496 Views
Ever helpful. nossy - 28/05/2013 10:23:12 PM 1700 Views
Re: Please have a look at the attached list and tell me who "they" are, exactly. dart_board - 28/05/2013 04:56:55 PM 2280 Views
Re: Please have a look at the attached list and tell me who "they" are, exactly. nossy - 28/05/2013 10:18:40 PM 1666 Views
Re: Please have a look at the attached list and tell me who "they" are, exactly. dart_board - 29/05/2013 08:57:17 PM 2248 Views
I'm having warm feelings. nossy - 29/05/2013 09:38:45 PM 1647 Views
Re: I'm having warm feelings. dart_board - 30/05/2013 12:46:57 AM 2059 Views
"Who else? Major League Baseball. " Joel - 12/08/2013 04:34:48 AM 1880 Views
I can't believe I missed this thread. *NM* Dan - 01/06/2013 10:08:08 AM 1235 Views
How much did you miss it, really? Joel - 12/08/2013 04:38:21 AM 1591 Views
Back to Messageboard Post New Thread Search Help Stats Rules

Reply to Message

Block Quote Paragraph Quote
Formatting
Smiley Codes