Active Users:2953 Time:22/01/2025 11:32:23 PM
but apparently it's only okay for some groups/people and not others. ßelals Girl Send a noteboard - 25/05/2013 02:20:21 AM

If a Christian killed a Muslim and then another Muslim came on this board complaining about violent Christians, and I said something like "I hate it when Muslims look down their noses at Christianity when their own religion has had all sorts of violent terrorists," I doubt anyone would be calling the Muslim out for defending his religion and its followers, even if I didn't personally say he himself was one of those terrorists. And I doubt anyone would be taking my side, either. At the very least, I'd be told I should have phrased my comment in a less inflammatory way and clarified exactly who I was tarring with my nasty little brush. And understandably so. But those rules don't apply when it's Christians being treated that way. Instead, we are told we're either too thin-skinned, are told we should have given the original poster the benefit of the doubt and assumed the most positive interpretation of his words is what he meant, or told our objection proves the other person's point. What I see here is blatant favoritism, regardless of how well you guys try to dress it up.

When a Muslim does something terrible today it absolutely has no bearing on how we should view or treat any other Muslim and in no way justifies any sort of retaliatory actions towards them.

When a Christian did something terrible 300 years ago, it is still relevant today and should be taken into account when deciding how valid any other Christian's opinion or beliefs are. It also at least partially justifies retaliatory actions against them today because we don't live in a bubble and actions in the past can come back to haunt us in the present.

What is this, Bizzaro-Stormfront?


View original postThat first sentence really isn't a very accurate representation of Ghavrel's statements, I suppose you're aware of that.

View original postIt seems to me you're getting confused by mixing "Christianity" with "Christians". What he complains about is not "Christians today taking the moral high ground", it is Christians today claiming that Christianity as a religion is morally better than Islam as a religion, in some kind of ahistorical, contextless moral ranking of religions.

No, that's you putting words in his mouth to spin his statement in the most positive way you can. His actual statement was far more simplistic.


View original postRegardless, my point was not to somehow blame Jeo for identifying with people who lived long ago, far away or both. Essentially everybody in the world does that, it's entirely natural. I was merely profiting from the occasion to illustrate Ghavrel's point about how people's actions do not occur in a vacuum, and have contexts, as we all have our personal connections, associations and emotions linking us to other people past or present. Which does not mean that people don't bear responsibility for their actions; but it does mean that actions can lead to reactions, sometimes even from people quite far away or quite a lot later.

And my point was that you were acting like he identified with them automatically and that proved your point, when instead, he identified with them because the initial argument lumped him in with them and continued from there.


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Maybe it is time to start treating muslims a little differently? - 23/05/2013 03:55:28 AM 2645 Views
Nah, you're just a bigot. *NM* - 23/05/2013 08:21:33 AM 763 Views
Yes, I am against religions that call for violence. *NM* - 23/05/2013 12:23:31 PM 670 Views
Wasn't aware you were against Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Zoroastrianism, Shinto... *NM* - 23/05/2013 12:59:04 PM 743 Views
Where does Christianity call for violence? - 23/05/2013 03:55:11 PM 1169 Views
Dueteronomy 13: 1-5 states that you must kill prophets of other religions. - 23/05/2013 07:44:48 PM 1236 Views
The Old Testament is not Christianity. It is where Christianity CAME from. *NM* - 23/05/2013 09:25:12 PM 692 Views
FALSE! - 24/05/2013 01:41:50 PM 1273 Views
*sigh* And in fulfilling the "law" he created a new covenant which supplanted the old.. - 24/05/2013 06:09:43 PM 1219 Views
All the death of Christ did was attone for the sins of the world. - 26/05/2013 03:00:26 AM 1382 Views
Sorry, you are wrong. - 28/05/2013 04:17:51 PM 1229 Views
No. The New Covenant SUPPLEMENTS, not supplants, the Old. - 12/08/2013 02:45:55 AM 1526 Views
Ok....and? - 23/05/2013 10:36:55 PM 1092 Views
You might want to slap some qualifiers on there *NM* - 23/05/2013 07:50:43 PM 727 Views
Actually, I very intentionally didn't put any qualifiers on that... - 23/05/2013 10:38:24 PM 1168 Views
The Cleansing of the Temple shows a legitimized use of physical force. *NM* - 24/05/2013 05:05:55 AM 775 Views
Oh, boo hoo.... - 24/05/2013 03:50:18 PM 1230 Views
LOL. - 24/05/2013 04:45:50 PM 1169 Views
Violence.... - 24/05/2013 05:32:47 PM 1153 Views
Whipping people to drive them away of something is violence. It's not negotiable. - 24/05/2013 06:06:42 PM 1026 Views
You are something... - 24/05/2013 06:29:03 PM 1093 Views
Also, spanking has been pretty soundly debunked as good parenting. Maybe not a good analogy. *NM* - 24/05/2013 06:16:18 PM 726 Views
Because children are more behaved now.... - 24/05/2013 06:21:43 PM 1074 Views
I don't favor spanking but the studies 'debunking it' are mostly 'bunk' - 24/05/2013 10:29:28 PM 1167 Views
Yes. - 24/05/2013 10:42:51 PM 1107 Views
Re: Yes. - 25/05/2013 12:22:56 AM 1144 Views
You know better than that. - 25/05/2013 06:52:32 AM 1149 Views
I think you just claimed that my statement as to my opinion is anecdotal evidence of that opinion - 25/05/2013 09:26:21 AM 1249 Views
I was talking about your reference to your upbringing as relevant to the statistical trend. *NM* - 25/05/2013 09:49:19 AM 679 Views
Yes, but I wasn't claiming it was relevant in that way - 25/05/2013 10:15:52 AM 1116 Views
... ? *NM* - 25/05/2013 12:58:43 PM 718 Views
I couldn't remember the code for *NM* - 25/05/2013 07:57:48 PM 671 Views
I wouldn't belong to any other kind of religion. - 25/05/2013 01:21:45 AM 1130 Views
And the night was finished with a mob of white men attacking the police in the name of bigotry - 23/05/2013 09:51:02 AM 1056 Views
In the name of a religion that preaches violence? - 23/05/2013 12:21:59 PM 1212 Views
Islam "preaches" violence just about as much as Christianity does. - 23/05/2013 12:46:00 PM 1141 Views
it's actually pretty funny because many people understand Islam to, derivatively, mean peace - 23/05/2013 01:44:18 PM 1153 Views
Your argument is logically flawed - 23/05/2013 02:02:33 PM 1227 Views
Re: Your argument is logically flawed - 23/05/2013 02:34:22 PM 1249 Views
No, it actaully does not. - 23/05/2013 01:51:51 PM 1231 Views
Maybe they will be, I don't know, KILLED for standing up - 23/05/2013 02:24:59 PM 1018 Views
Exactly - 23/05/2013 03:52:25 PM 1145 Views
Couple of things - 23/05/2013 08:13:57 PM 1468 Views
Unfortunately they are NOT consistant in their messaging... see my link - 23/05/2013 09:30:53 PM 1337 Views
Really? Of all the criticisms you could make of Qaradawi, you whine about that? - 23/05/2013 09:58:50 PM 1178 Views
I think the key point there is that the MCB supported him for a visa in spite of that... - 23/05/2013 11:05:14 PM 1127 Views
So much for my attempt to bring a little levity to things. - 24/05/2013 08:07:24 PM 1165 Views
My ability to detect humor and sarcasm in writing is very sporadic - 24/05/2013 10:28:03 PM 1036 Views
That's a shame. - 24/05/2013 11:55:37 PM 978 Views
Re: That's a shame. - 25/05/2013 02:25:31 AM 1071 Views
Re: That's a shame. - 25/05/2013 12:17:13 PM 997 Views
Sure, I'll bite. - 23/05/2013 09:23:54 PM 1174 Views
Until the "unwashed masses" no longer show up dancing in the streets... - 23/05/2013 09:40:59 PM 1077 Views
I hope you like black and white. - 23/05/2013 09:50:03 PM 1025 Views
Not sure which point you think I missed that I should have responded to... - 24/05/2013 01:52:20 AM 1100 Views
I think I must have confused you. - 24/05/2013 08:46:42 PM 990 Views
I suppose that depends on which "points" precisely you thought you were making. - 23/05/2013 09:54:55 PM 1089 Views
Not really - 24/05/2013 02:36:41 AM 1106 Views
Yawn. Bored now. - 24/05/2013 08:18:27 PM 1036 Views
whatever *NM* - 28/05/2013 04:18:56 PM 618 Views
Do "unwashed masses" publicly APOLOGIZING for terrorism count? - 12/08/2013 03:04:56 AM 1350 Views
Re: No, it actaully does not. - 24/05/2013 02:29:04 AM 1218 Views
Now let's not start with bullshit here - 23/05/2013 01:54:48 PM 1423 Views
Tom, this is a rare occurance when we agree. - 23/05/2013 03:59:49 PM 1017 Views
That may be so, but the response was addressed to Ben. - 23/05/2013 04:13:47 PM 1155 Views
Oops, my bad messed up reading the discussion tree... - 23/05/2013 06:15:34 PM 1101 Views
I don't approve of a great deal of popular Islamic thought. - 24/05/2013 05:13:51 AM 1257 Views
My thoughts exactly. *NM* - 24/05/2013 09:13:18 AM 620 Views
I agree. *NM* - 24/05/2013 12:05:46 PM 682 Views
Do you think that it will truly happen? - 24/05/2013 05:47:50 PM 1222 Views
Might have something to do with colonialists ruining everything they can get their hands on. - 24/05/2013 06:09:13 PM 1090 Views
Oh, so its our fault... - 24/05/2013 06:38:14 PM 1114 Views
It's always our fault *NM* - 24/05/2013 07:40:24 PM 805 Views
In general, I agree - 24/05/2013 09:01:53 PM 1247 Views
That word "our" is interesting, don't you think? - 24/05/2013 09:09:24 PM 1090 Views
That was beautiful. *NM* - 24/05/2013 09:12:09 PM 739 Views
No, Ghavrel was doing that - 25/05/2013 12:03:09 AM 1174 Views
I'm sure we all do it, that's kind of the point. - 25/05/2013 12:26:25 AM 1033 Views
but apparently it's only okay for some groups/people and not others. - 25/05/2013 02:20:21 AM 1229 Views
Exactly. - 25/05/2013 06:26:57 AM 1160 Views
Hyperbole? - 25/05/2013 09:57:56 PM 979 Views
Has anyone ever told you that? - 25/05/2013 10:33:32 PM 1234 Views
No, I really don't think so. - 25/05/2013 11:18:05 AM 1042 Views
*bashes face against keyboard in frustration* - 25/05/2013 09:28:58 PM 1042 Views
Perhaps I should bow out and let Ghavrel speak for himself, then. - 25/05/2013 09:53:28 PM 1189 Views
It's accurate. *NM* - 25/05/2013 10:25:04 PM 690 Views
Re: but apparently it's only okay for some groups/people and not others. - 25/05/2013 09:49:48 PM 1090 Views
Re: but apparently it's only okay for some groups/people and not others. - 26/05/2013 12:48:45 AM 1209 Views
Hm - 26/05/2013 10:10:49 AM 1170 Views
Also, yeah. Historically oppressive groups aren't equal to historically oppressed groups. - 25/05/2013 10:31:58 PM 1175 Views
Too simplistic AND a blatant justification for double standards I thought you didn't have - 26/05/2013 01:02:07 AM 1147 Views
That's not racism. Racism requires systematic oppression. *NM* - 26/05/2013 01:14:08 AM 682 Views
No - 26/05/2013 01:57:11 AM 1178 Views
Where whitey firmly belongs, in no small part because of posts like that. - 26/05/2013 02:00:59 AM 1138 Views
Lulz, you're claiming every member of a group deserves something because of what I said? - 26/05/2013 02:11:36 AM 1111 Views
And now you know how Muslims feel. *NM* - 26/05/2013 03:48:33 AM 702 Views
I already knew - 26/05/2013 04:02:02 AM 1069 Views
No. - 25/05/2013 10:28:24 PM 1091 Views
What a load of bullshit. - 25/05/2013 06:14:02 AM 1095 Views
This is why I want to get the HELL out of there. - 12/08/2013 04:16:39 AM 1250 Views
The difference with Islam is they lost the empire game but they were conquers - 27/05/2013 12:42:05 AM 1228 Views
I'm gonna have to disagree with some of that. - 27/05/2013 07:06:53 PM 1073 Views
Yes it was very complex and the Crusaders were not saints (even the sainted ones) - 29/05/2013 04:15:57 AM 1166 Views
Fair enough on all counts, then. *NM* - 29/05/2013 07:37:34 PM 660 Views
Some of my ancestors lived and caved and bashed each over the heads with rocks - 26/05/2013 04:38:56 PM 1110 Views
Well yes. - 26/05/2013 05:08:08 PM 1060 Views
I would prefer to say that - 27/05/2013 01:26:57 AM 1275 Views
Of course you would. - 27/05/2013 10:19:46 AM 1185 Views
I in no way support profiling people based on race or religion - 29/05/2013 04:11:01 AM 1245 Views
Ok. - 29/05/2013 08:54:34 PM 1255 Views
I think about the evolution of Western religion a lot. - 12/08/2013 03:23:37 AM 1466 Views
There has been 14,000+ terrorist actions in the name of Islam since 9/11. - 24/05/2013 03:30:30 AM 1327 Views
That isn't a grown up answer. - 23/05/2013 04:35:16 PM 1189 Views
Re: In the name of a religion that preaches violence? - 23/05/2013 07:28:42 PM 1171 Views
His head will only be chopped off is he draws or insults Muhammad! *NM* - 24/05/2013 03:34:21 AM 722 Views
What does he have to do to get on TV? *NM* - 24/05/2013 07:45:53 PM 653 Views
Statistically - 24/05/2013 10:22:29 AM 1237 Views
What kind of horrifying bugs to you guys HAVE over there??? - 24/05/2013 02:13:23 PM 1217 Views
Hardly any - 24/05/2013 02:16:46 PM 1347 Views
I think probably not. - 23/05/2013 07:57:53 PM 1121 Views
See Tom's post above for the facts..... *NM* - 24/05/2013 03:36:18 AM 646 Views
That your original post was absurd? Thank you, but I got that on my own. *NM* - 24/05/2013 09:09:21 PM 636 Views
It shows what a silly little fool you are, but that's your choice. *NM* - 24/05/2013 09:19:04 PM 627 Views
Hey man, you're the one who told me Tom's post had the facts. - 24/05/2013 09:20:53 PM 1051 Views
It means exactly what I said. He did a great job! *NM* - 24/05/2013 09:23:44 PM 676 Views
Yes, he did. - 24/05/2013 09:30:42 PM 1104 Views
Also, don't tell him I said I take him seriously. *NM* - 24/05/2013 09:34:59 PM 665 Views
But wouldn't religion-based profile activities... - 23/05/2013 10:54:33 PM 1030 Views
My brain is slow right now, but I think I completely agree. - 23/05/2013 11:00:31 PM 1167 Views
You mean like this? - 24/05/2013 08:15:16 PM 1219 Views
Sorry bu the comparison isn't valid - 25/05/2013 09:50:34 PM 1055 Views
+1 - Larry is an honest guy and will realize his error. *NM* - 25/05/2013 10:53:14 PM 672 Views
Numbers alone do not change the validity of such - 25/05/2013 11:15:17 PM 1137 Views
Yes it does. - 26/05/2013 12:23:27 AM 1140 Views
*sigh* - 26/05/2013 12:46:49 AM 1032 Views
no liberalisn is sane and well thought in comparison - 26/05/2013 04:04:39 PM 1017 Views
no but they do tell a story - 26/05/2013 04:27:26 PM 965 Views
UPDATE - Cleric/Teacher of one of the murderers praises him for "courage". - 24/05/2013 09:22:24 PM 1149 Views
Do you have a functional link? *NM* - 25/05/2013 12:19:01 AM 682 Views
The link works for me (Yahoo news) - here is the text. - 25/05/2013 02:05:41 AM 1297 Views
Re: Maybe it is time to start treating muslims a little differently? - 27/05/2013 02:28:31 PM 1721 Views
Please have a look at the attached list and tell me who "they" are, exactly. - 27/05/2013 03:22:41 PM 1181 Views
Just as a little aside - 28/05/2013 12:51:48 AM 1057 Views
Ever helpful. - 28/05/2013 10:23:12 PM 1255 Views
Re: Please have a look at the attached list and tell me who "they" are, exactly. - 28/05/2013 04:56:55 PM 1633 Views
Re: Please have a look at the attached list and tell me who "they" are, exactly. - 28/05/2013 10:18:40 PM 1225 Views
Re: Please have a look at the attached list and tell me who "they" are, exactly. - 29/05/2013 08:57:17 PM 1670 Views
I'm having warm feelings. - 29/05/2013 09:38:45 PM 1210 Views
Re: I'm having warm feelings. - 30/05/2013 12:46:57 AM 1519 Views
"Who else? Major League Baseball. " - 12/08/2013 04:34:48 AM 1434 Views
I can't believe I missed this thread. *NM* - 01/06/2013 10:08:08 AM 913 Views
How much did you miss it, really? - 12/08/2013 04:38:21 AM 1141 Views

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