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In general, I agree nossy Send a noteboard - 24/05/2013 09:01:53 PM

However, you are ignoring so much history that your argument doesn't hold up.


View original postGet over that idea real quick, because if you're gonna blame everyone else for your screwed up decisions, you're in a world of hurt. I'm not gonna condem or defend the "imperialastic" behavior of the past. There's no point. The actions were done, and you deal with it.

Is this what we tell abused children? Yes, we do have a right to expect an individual to take responsibility for any personal actions, but it's extremely myopic to believe that there is no lasting effect of past (and current) wrongs.
View original postHowever, you are 100% wrong in thinking that acts of Terror are a "response to geopolitical issues." I call complete and total bull crap on that statement. Acts of Terror occure because someone wanted them to. Period. Their internal motivation could be geopolitical...or religion based...or just to "watch the world burn." If I came up to you and punched you in the face, would you call that a minority vs white assault? Could I claim that you were holding me back from progressing in society, because your ancestors owned slaves?

It would most likely depend why you punched him in the face, for how long, how much of his family you had already punched in the face, why, etc. You may like the idea of ignoring history, but that isn't how most human brains reflexively think, regardless of whose "fault" it is.
View original postAn individual is responsible for every action they make. That guy in England decided to take the meat cleaver to the soldier. Those terrorists decided to attack the embassy. And those hijackers decided to slam the plane into the building. Blame is 100% on the shoulders of the person doing the action.

It is. That does not, in any way, mean that there wasn't a reason, or that some may not decide to act because of that reason.
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Maybe it is time to start treating muslims a little differently? Anonymous2000 - 23/05/2013 03:55:28 AM 2645 Views
Nah, you're just a bigot. *NM* Ghavrel - 23/05/2013 08:21:33 AM 763 Views
Yes, I am against religions that call for violence. *NM* Anonymous2000 - 23/05/2013 12:23:31 PM 670 Views
Wasn't aware you were against Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Zoroastrianism, Shinto... *NM* Ghavrel - 23/05/2013 12:59:04 PM 742 Views
Where does Christianity call for violence? Jeordam - 23/05/2013 03:55:11 PM 1169 Views
Dueteronomy 13: 1-5 states that you must kill prophets of other religions. Hieshyn - 23/05/2013 07:44:48 PM 1235 Views
The Old Testament is not Christianity. It is where Christianity CAME from. *NM* HyogaRott - 23/05/2013 09:25:12 PM 691 Views
FALSE! Dannymac - 24/05/2013 01:41:50 PM 1273 Views
*sigh* And in fulfilling the "law" he created a new covenant which supplanted the old.. HyogaRott - 24/05/2013 06:09:43 PM 1218 Views
All the death of Christ did was attone for the sins of the world. Hieshyn - 26/05/2013 03:00:26 AM 1381 Views
Sorry, you are wrong. HyogaRott - 28/05/2013 04:17:51 PM 1229 Views
...I can think of a rather larger difference. Starts with J and ends with S. *NM* Ghavrel - 28/05/2013 11:54:28 PM 777 Views
Yeah, but not really, both religions acknowledge his existence, but differ on his role. HyogaRott - 29/05/2013 06:00:03 PM 1234 Views
Net result: All of God's children can enter into Heaven. Hieshyn - 30/05/2013 05:26:20 PM 1425 Views
No. The New Covenant SUPPLEMENTS, not supplants, the Old. Joel - 12/08/2013 02:45:55 AM 1526 Views
Ok....and? Jeordam - 23/05/2013 10:36:55 PM 1092 Views
You asked for an example, I gave one. I'm not here to argue with you. *NM* Hieshyn - 26/05/2013 02:57:27 AM 693 Views
You might want to slap some qualifiers on there *NM* Isaac - 23/05/2013 07:50:43 PM 727 Views
Actually, I very intentionally didn't put any qualifiers on that... Jeordam - 23/05/2013 10:38:24 PM 1167 Views
The Cleansing of the Temple shows a legitimized use of physical force. *NM* Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 05:05:55 AM 775 Views
Oh, boo hoo.... Jeordam - 24/05/2013 03:50:18 PM 1229 Views
LOL. Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 04:45:50 PM 1168 Views
Violence.... Jeordam - 24/05/2013 05:32:47 PM 1152 Views
Whipping people to drive them away of something is violence. It's not negotiable. Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 06:06:42 PM 1025 Views
You are something... Jeordam - 24/05/2013 06:29:03 PM 1092 Views
We've gone from "Where does Christianity call for violence?" to "not all violence is bad." *NM* Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 09:09:30 PM 755 Views
To be fair, that is a good journey to make. Joel - 12/08/2013 02:51:17 AM 1144 Views
Also, spanking has been pretty soundly debunked as good parenting. Maybe not a good analogy. *NM* Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 06:16:18 PM 725 Views
Because children are more behaved now.... Jeordam - 24/05/2013 06:21:43 PM 1074 Views
I don't favor spanking but the studies 'debunking it' are mostly 'bunk' Isaac - 24/05/2013 10:29:28 PM 1167 Views
Yes. nossy - 24/05/2013 10:42:51 PM 1106 Views
Re: Yes. Isaac - 25/05/2013 12:22:56 AM 1143 Views
Congratulations; you now understand why (or one reason) my posts tend to run long. Joel - 12/08/2013 02:53:24 AM 1376 Views
You know better than that. Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 06:52:32 AM 1149 Views
I think you just claimed that my statement as to my opinion is anecdotal evidence of that opinion Isaac - 25/05/2013 09:26:21 AM 1249 Views
I was talking about your reference to your upbringing as relevant to the statistical trend. *NM* Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 09:49:19 AM 678 Views
Yes, but I wasn't claiming it was relevant in that way Isaac - 25/05/2013 10:15:52 AM 1115 Views
... ? *NM* Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 12:58:43 PM 717 Views
I couldn't remember the code for *NM* Isaac - 25/05/2013 07:57:48 PM 670 Views
I wouldn't belong to any other kind of religion. Cannoli - 25/05/2013 01:21:45 AM 1130 Views
And the night was finished with a mob of white men attacking the police in the name of bigotry snoopcester - 23/05/2013 09:51:02 AM 1056 Views
In the name of a religion that preaches violence? Anonymous2000 - 23/05/2013 12:21:59 PM 1211 Views
Islam "preaches" violence just about as much as Christianity does. Nebhead - 23/05/2013 12:46:00 PM 1140 Views
it's actually pretty funny because many people understand Islam to, derivatively, mean peace Fox and Ravens - 23/05/2013 01:44:18 PM 1152 Views
Your argument is logically flawed Tom - 23/05/2013 02:02:33 PM 1227 Views
Re: Your argument is logically flawed Fox and Ravens - 23/05/2013 02:34:22 PM 1248 Views
No, it actaully does not. HyogaRott - 23/05/2013 01:51:51 PM 1230 Views
Maybe they will be, I don't know, KILLED for standing up Nighthawk - 23/05/2013 02:24:59 PM 1017 Views
Exactly HyogaRott - 23/05/2013 03:52:25 PM 1144 Views
Couple of things nossy - 23/05/2013 08:13:57 PM 1467 Views
Unfortunately they are NOT consistant in their messaging... see my link HyogaRott - 23/05/2013 09:30:53 PM 1336 Views
Well, "consistent" doesn't mean "never says things HyogaRott doesn't support." nossy - 23/05/2013 09:46:51 PM 1103 Views
There is a difference between putting forth a good PR spin occasionally and making a stand. HyogaRott - 24/05/2013 01:55:48 AM 1055 Views
Really? Of all the criticisms you could make of Qaradawi, you whine about that? Legolas - 23/05/2013 09:58:50 PM 1177 Views
I think the key point there is that the MCB supported him for a visa in spite of that... Isaac - 23/05/2013 11:05:14 PM 1127 Views
So much for my attempt to bring a little levity to things. Legolas - 24/05/2013 08:07:24 PM 1165 Views
My ability to detect humor and sarcasm in writing is very sporadic Isaac - 24/05/2013 10:28:03 PM 1036 Views
That's a shame. Legolas - 24/05/2013 11:55:37 PM 978 Views
Re: That's a shame. Isaac - 25/05/2013 02:25:31 AM 1071 Views
Re: That's a shame. Legolas - 25/05/2013 12:17:13 PM 996 Views
Sure, I'll bite. Legolas - 23/05/2013 09:23:54 PM 1174 Views
Until the "unwashed masses" no longer show up dancing in the streets... HyogaRott - 23/05/2013 09:40:59 PM 1076 Views
I hope you like black and white. nossy - 23/05/2013 09:50:03 PM 1025 Views
Not sure which point you think I missed that I should have responded to... HyogaRott - 24/05/2013 01:52:20 AM 1099 Views
I think I must have confused you. nossy - 24/05/2013 08:46:42 PM 989 Views
I suppose that depends on which "points" precisely you thought you were making. Legolas - 23/05/2013 09:54:55 PM 1088 Views
Not really HyogaRott - 24/05/2013 02:36:41 AM 1106 Views
Yawn. Bored now. Legolas - 24/05/2013 08:18:27 PM 1036 Views
whatever *NM* HyogaRott - 28/05/2013 04:18:56 PM 618 Views
Do "unwashed masses" publicly APOLOGIZING for terrorism count? Joel - 12/08/2013 03:04:56 AM 1350 Views
Re: No, it actaully does not. Stephen - 24/05/2013 02:29:04 AM 1217 Views
Now let's not start with bullshit here Tom - 23/05/2013 01:54:48 PM 1422 Views
Tom, this is a rare occurance when we agree. HyogaRott - 23/05/2013 03:59:49 PM 1017 Views
That may be so, but the response was addressed to Ben. Tom - 23/05/2013 04:13:47 PM 1154 Views
Oops, my bad messed up reading the discussion tree... HyogaRott - 23/05/2013 06:15:34 PM 1100 Views
Excellent post - anyone that thinks all religions are the same is a complete moron. Anonymous2000 - 24/05/2013 03:32:26 AM 1261 Views
I don't approve of a great deal of popular Islamic thought. Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 05:13:51 AM 1256 Views
My thoughts exactly. *NM* ironclad - 24/05/2013 09:13:18 AM 620 Views
I agree. *NM* Stephen - 24/05/2013 12:05:46 PM 681 Views
Do you think that it will truly happen? Jeordam - 24/05/2013 05:47:50 PM 1221 Views
Might have something to do with colonialists ruining everything they can get their hands on. Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 06:09:13 PM 1090 Views
The first step on the road to recovery is aknowledging your responsibility for where you are and do HyogaRott - 24/05/2013 06:22:42 PM 1067 Views
Oh, so its our fault... Jeordam - 24/05/2013 06:38:14 PM 1114 Views
It's always our fault *NM* ßelals Girl - 24/05/2013 07:40:24 PM 804 Views
In general, I agree nossy - 24/05/2013 09:01:53 PM 1247 Views
That word "our" is interesting, don't you think? Legolas - 24/05/2013 09:09:24 PM 1090 Views
That was beautiful. *NM* Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 09:12:09 PM 739 Views
No, Ghavrel was doing that ßelals Girl - 25/05/2013 12:03:09 AM 1174 Views
I'm sure we all do it, that's kind of the point. Legolas - 25/05/2013 12:26:25 AM 1033 Views
but apparently it's only okay for some groups/people and not others. ßelals Girl - 25/05/2013 02:20:21 AM 1228 Views
Exactly. Tom - 25/05/2013 06:26:57 AM 1159 Views
Hyperbole? nossy - 25/05/2013 09:57:56 PM 979 Views
Has anyone ever told you that? Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 10:33:32 PM 1234 Views
No, I really don't think so. Legolas - 25/05/2013 11:18:05 AM 1042 Views
*bashes face against keyboard in frustration* ßelals Girl - 25/05/2013 09:28:58 PM 1041 Views
Perhaps I should bow out and let Ghavrel speak for himself, then. Legolas - 25/05/2013 09:53:28 PM 1188 Views
It's accurate. *NM* Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 10:25:04 PM 690 Views
Re: but apparently it's only okay for some groups/people and not others. nossy - 25/05/2013 09:49:48 PM 1089 Views
Re: but apparently it's only okay for some groups/people and not others. ßelals Girl - 26/05/2013 12:48:45 AM 1208 Views
Hm nossy - 26/05/2013 10:10:49 AM 1169 Views
Also, yeah. Historically oppressive groups aren't equal to historically oppressed groups. Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 10:31:58 PM 1174 Views
Too simplistic AND a blatant justification for double standards I thought you didn't have ßelals Girl - 26/05/2013 01:02:07 AM 1147 Views
That's not racism. Racism requires systematic oppression. *NM* Ghavrel - 26/05/2013 01:14:08 AM 681 Views
No ßelals Girl - 26/05/2013 01:57:11 AM 1177 Views
Where whitey firmly belongs, in no small part because of posts like that. Ghavrel - 26/05/2013 02:00:59 AM 1138 Views
Lulz, you're claiming every member of a group deserves something because of what I said? ßelals Girl - 26/05/2013 02:11:36 AM 1110 Views
And now you know how Muslims feel. *NM* Ghavrel - 26/05/2013 03:48:33 AM 702 Views
I already knew ßelals Girl - 26/05/2013 04:02:02 AM 1068 Views
Just about every group has historically oppressed and BEEN oppressed at some time. Joel - 12/08/2013 04:00:54 AM 1186 Views
No. Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 10:28:24 PM 1091 Views
Oh, I don't think he's talking about past "colonialism" only. Tom - 25/05/2013 06:18:11 AM 1105 Views
Possibly. Some people do, to be sure, and there is some truth in that view. Legolas - 25/05/2013 11:27:36 AM 1007 Views
What a load of bullshit. Tom - 25/05/2013 06:14:02 AM 1095 Views
I don't think you can reasonably claim to separate Salafi thought from the geopolitics of the time. Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 10:23:03 PM 1126 Views
This is why I want to get the HELL out of there. Joel - 12/08/2013 04:16:39 AM 1250 Views
The difference with Islam is they lost the empire game but they were conquers random thoughts - 27/05/2013 12:42:05 AM 1227 Views
I'm gonna have to disagree with some of that. Legolas - 27/05/2013 07:06:53 PM 1072 Views
Yes it was very complex and the Crusaders were not saints (even the sainted ones) random thoughts - 29/05/2013 04:15:57 AM 1166 Views
Fair enough on all counts, then. *NM* Legolas - 29/05/2013 07:37:34 PM 659 Views
No, it had a bunch of opportunistic brown folks systematically dismantling it for centuries. Joel - 12/08/2013 03:43:00 AM 1106 Views
Some of my ancestors lived and caved and bashed each over the heads with rocks random thoughts - 26/05/2013 04:38:56 PM 1110 Views
Well yes. nossy - 26/05/2013 05:08:08 PM 1060 Views
I would prefer to say that random thoughts - 27/05/2013 01:26:57 AM 1275 Views
Of course you would. nossy - 27/05/2013 10:19:46 AM 1184 Views
I in no way support profiling people based on race or religion random thoughts - 29/05/2013 04:11:01 AM 1244 Views
Ok. nossy - 29/05/2013 08:54:34 PM 1254 Views
I think about the evolution of Western religion a lot. Joel - 12/08/2013 03:23:37 AM 1465 Views
There has been 14,000+ terrorist actions in the name of Islam since 9/11. Anonymous2000 - 24/05/2013 03:30:30 AM 1326 Views
That isn't a grown up answer. snoopcester - 23/05/2013 04:35:16 PM 1188 Views
Re: In the name of a religion that preaches violence? ßelals Girl - 23/05/2013 07:28:42 PM 1170 Views
His head will only be chopped off is he draws or insults Muhammad! *NM* Anonymous2000 - 24/05/2013 03:34:21 AM 722 Views
What does he have to do to get on TV? *NM* ßelals Girl - 24/05/2013 07:45:53 PM 653 Views
Statistically snoopcester - 24/05/2013 10:22:29 AM 1236 Views
What kind of horrifying bugs to you guys HAVE over there??? ßelals Girl - 24/05/2013 02:13:23 PM 1217 Views
Hardly any snoopcester - 24/05/2013 02:16:46 PM 1347 Views
Your solution is profiling...because it's time to *stop* thinking all folks are the same? *NM* Sareitha Sedai - 23/05/2013 02:36:32 PM 629 Views
I don't think we've ever encouraged people to think all folks are the same Isaac - 23/05/2013 07:29:54 PM 1045 Views
"Perhaps it's time to stop thinking all folks are the same?" ~A2k Sareitha Sedai - 23/05/2013 07:49:12 PM 1027 Views
I think he's pointing to the encuragement of willful blindedness with that remark Isaac - 23/05/2013 08:15:55 PM 1061 Views
I think probably not. nossy - 23/05/2013 07:57:53 PM 1120 Views
See Tom's post above for the facts..... *NM* Anonymous2000 - 24/05/2013 03:36:18 AM 646 Views
That your original post was absurd? Thank you, but I got that on my own. *NM* nossy - 24/05/2013 09:09:21 PM 636 Views
It shows what a silly little fool you are, but that's your choice. *NM* Anonymous2000 - 24/05/2013 09:19:04 PM 627 Views
Hey man, you're the one who told me Tom's post had the facts. nossy - 24/05/2013 09:20:53 PM 1051 Views
It means exactly what I said. He did a great job! *NM* Anonymous2000 - 24/05/2013 09:23:44 PM 676 Views
Yes, he did. nossy - 24/05/2013 09:30:42 PM 1104 Views
Also, don't tell him I said I take him seriously. *NM* nossy - 24/05/2013 09:34:59 PM 665 Views
But wouldn't religion-based profile activities... Jeordam - 23/05/2013 10:54:33 PM 1030 Views
My brain is slow right now, but I think I completely agree. nossy - 23/05/2013 11:00:31 PM 1167 Views
You mean like this? Larry - 24/05/2013 08:15:16 PM 1219 Views
Sorry bu the comparison isn't valid random thoughts - 25/05/2013 09:50:34 PM 1054 Views
+1 - Larry is an honest guy and will realize his error. *NM* Anonymous2000 - 25/05/2013 10:53:14 PM 671 Views
Numbers alone do not change the validity of such Larry - 25/05/2013 11:15:17 PM 1136 Views
Yes it does. Anonymous2000 - 26/05/2013 12:23:27 AM 1140 Views
*sigh* Larry - 26/05/2013 12:46:49 AM 1031 Views
I think asking most Americans for recognition of a non-binary political paradigm is a bit much. *NM* Ghavrel - 26/05/2013 01:16:30 AM 688 Views
no liberalisn is sane and well thought in comparison random thoughts - 26/05/2013 04:04:39 PM 1016 Views
no but they do tell a story random thoughts - 26/05/2013 04:27:26 PM 964 Views
UPDATE - Cleric/Teacher of one of the murderers praises him for "courage". Anonymous2000 - 24/05/2013 09:22:24 PM 1149 Views
Do you have a functional link? *NM* Stephen - 25/05/2013 12:19:01 AM 681 Views
The link works for me (Yahoo news) - here is the text. Anonymous2000 - 25/05/2013 02:05:41 AM 1297 Views
Re: Maybe it is time to start treating muslims a little differently? dart_board - 27/05/2013 02:28:31 PM 1721 Views
Please have a look at the attached list and tell me who "they" are, exactly. nossy - 27/05/2013 03:22:41 PM 1180 Views
Just as a little aside Tom - 28/05/2013 12:51:48 AM 1056 Views
Ever helpful. nossy - 28/05/2013 10:23:12 PM 1254 Views
Re: Please have a look at the attached list and tell me who "they" are, exactly. dart_board - 28/05/2013 04:56:55 PM 1633 Views
Re: Please have a look at the attached list and tell me who "they" are, exactly. nossy - 28/05/2013 10:18:40 PM 1225 Views
Re: Please have a look at the attached list and tell me who "they" are, exactly. dart_board - 29/05/2013 08:57:17 PM 1670 Views
I'm having warm feelings. nossy - 29/05/2013 09:38:45 PM 1210 Views
Re: I'm having warm feelings. dart_board - 30/05/2013 12:46:57 AM 1519 Views
"Who else? Major League Baseball. " Joel - 12/08/2013 04:34:48 AM 1433 Views
I can't believe I missed this thread. *NM* Dan - 01/06/2013 10:08:08 AM 913 Views
How much did you miss it, really? Joel - 12/08/2013 04:38:21 AM 1140 Views
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