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There is a difference between putting forth a good PR spin occasionally and making a stand. HyogaRott Send a noteboard - 24/05/2013 01:55:48 AM

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You just ignored the points I made to link to something that you don't agree with. So they stood up and said something against America? That does not mean that they haven't also told off the terrorists for abusing Islam. There is a difference to calling someone an enemy combatant when they are, you know, shooting at you, and to denouncing someone for killing a soldier on his home soil, in cold blood, and claiming it's for Allah.

I think you're talking to the wrong person if you want me to say that America categorically deserves no criticism for Iraq. I've always been aware that I'd probably want to kill people too, if they invaded my space and endangered my family. I guess I'm just not appropriately patriotic.


As I said above, you will regularly see some supposed "spokesmen" for peaceful Islam on a news network. Unfortunately they are often on Al Jazeera 30 minutes later condemning the infidels.

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Maybe it is time to start treating muslims a little differently? Anonymous2000 - 23/05/2013 03:55:28 AM 2703 Views
Nah, you're just a bigot. *NM* Ghavrel - 23/05/2013 08:21:33 AM 786 Views
Yes, I am against religions that call for violence. *NM* Anonymous2000 - 23/05/2013 12:23:31 PM 697 Views
Wasn't aware you were against Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Zoroastrianism, Shinto... *NM* Ghavrel - 23/05/2013 12:59:04 PM 769 Views
Where does Christianity call for violence? Jeordam - 23/05/2013 03:55:11 PM 1217 Views
Dueteronomy 13: 1-5 states that you must kill prophets of other religions. Hieshyn - 23/05/2013 07:44:48 PM 1298 Views
The Old Testament is not Christianity. It is where Christianity CAME from. *NM* HyogaRott - 23/05/2013 09:25:12 PM 712 Views
FALSE! Dannymac - 24/05/2013 01:41:50 PM 1325 Views
*sigh* And in fulfilling the "law" he created a new covenant which supplanted the old.. HyogaRott - 24/05/2013 06:09:43 PM 1283 Views
All the death of Christ did was attone for the sins of the world. Hieshyn - 26/05/2013 03:00:26 AM 1443 Views
Sorry, you are wrong. HyogaRott - 28/05/2013 04:17:51 PM 1295 Views
...I can think of a rather larger difference. Starts with J and ends with S. *NM* Ghavrel - 28/05/2013 11:54:28 PM 799 Views
Yeah, but not really, both religions acknowledge his existence, but differ on his role. HyogaRott - 29/05/2013 06:00:03 PM 1293 Views
Net result: All of God's children can enter into Heaven. Hieshyn - 30/05/2013 05:26:20 PM 1483 Views
No. The New Covenant SUPPLEMENTS, not supplants, the Old. Joel - 12/08/2013 02:45:55 AM 1579 Views
Ok....and? Jeordam - 23/05/2013 10:36:55 PM 1153 Views
You asked for an example, I gave one. I'm not here to argue with you. *NM* Hieshyn - 26/05/2013 02:57:27 AM 724 Views
You might want to slap some qualifiers on there *NM* Isaac - 23/05/2013 07:50:43 PM 755 Views
Actually, I very intentionally didn't put any qualifiers on that... Jeordam - 23/05/2013 10:38:24 PM 1224 Views
The Cleansing of the Temple shows a legitimized use of physical force. *NM* Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 05:05:55 AM 798 Views
Oh, boo hoo.... Jeordam - 24/05/2013 03:50:18 PM 1288 Views
LOL. Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 04:45:50 PM 1228 Views
Violence.... Jeordam - 24/05/2013 05:32:47 PM 1213 Views
Whipping people to drive them away of something is violence. It's not negotiable. Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 06:06:42 PM 1086 Views
You are something... Jeordam - 24/05/2013 06:29:03 PM 1151 Views
We've gone from "Where does Christianity call for violence?" to "not all violence is bad." *NM* Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 09:09:30 PM 781 Views
To be fair, that is a good journey to make. Joel - 12/08/2013 02:51:17 AM 1193 Views
Also, spanking has been pretty soundly debunked as good parenting. Maybe not a good analogy. *NM* Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 06:16:18 PM 772 Views
Because children are more behaved now.... Jeordam - 24/05/2013 06:21:43 PM 1137 Views
I don't favor spanking but the studies 'debunking it' are mostly 'bunk' Isaac - 24/05/2013 10:29:28 PM 1233 Views
Yes. nossy - 24/05/2013 10:42:51 PM 1152 Views
Re: Yes. Isaac - 25/05/2013 12:22:56 AM 1191 Views
Congratulations; you now understand why (or one reason) my posts tend to run long. Joel - 12/08/2013 02:53:24 AM 1424 Views
You know better than that. Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 06:52:32 AM 1210 Views
I think you just claimed that my statement as to my opinion is anecdotal evidence of that opinion Isaac - 25/05/2013 09:26:21 AM 1297 Views
I was talking about your reference to your upbringing as relevant to the statistical trend. *NM* Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 09:49:19 AM 701 Views
Yes, but I wasn't claiming it was relevant in that way Isaac - 25/05/2013 10:15:52 AM 1174 Views
... ? *NM* Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 12:58:43 PM 742 Views
I couldn't remember the code for *NM* Isaac - 25/05/2013 07:57:48 PM 693 Views
I wouldn't belong to any other kind of religion. Cannoli - 25/05/2013 01:21:45 AM 1187 Views
And the night was finished with a mob of white men attacking the police in the name of bigotry snoopcester - 23/05/2013 09:51:02 AM 1104 Views
In the name of a religion that preaches violence? Anonymous2000 - 23/05/2013 12:21:59 PM 1265 Views
Islam "preaches" violence just about as much as Christianity does. Nebhead - 23/05/2013 12:46:00 PM 1192 Views
it's actually pretty funny because many people understand Islam to, derivatively, mean peace Fox and Ravens - 23/05/2013 01:44:18 PM 1205 Views
Your argument is logically flawed Tom - 23/05/2013 02:02:33 PM 1291 Views
Re: Your argument is logically flawed Fox and Ravens - 23/05/2013 02:34:22 PM 1305 Views
No, it actaully does not. HyogaRott - 23/05/2013 01:51:51 PM 1281 Views
Maybe they will be, I don't know, KILLED for standing up Nighthawk - 23/05/2013 02:24:59 PM 1084 Views
Exactly HyogaRott - 23/05/2013 03:52:25 PM 1210 Views
Couple of things nossy - 23/05/2013 08:13:57 PM 1530 Views
Unfortunately they are NOT consistant in their messaging... see my link HyogaRott - 23/05/2013 09:30:53 PM 1370 Views
Well, "consistent" doesn't mean "never says things HyogaRott doesn't support." nossy - 23/05/2013 09:46:51 PM 1160 Views
There is a difference between putting forth a good PR spin occasionally and making a stand. HyogaRott - 24/05/2013 01:55:48 AM 1120 Views
Really? Of all the criticisms you could make of Qaradawi, you whine about that? Legolas - 23/05/2013 09:58:50 PM 1229 Views
I think the key point there is that the MCB supported him for a visa in spite of that... Isaac - 23/05/2013 11:05:14 PM 1197 Views
So much for my attempt to bring a little levity to things. Legolas - 24/05/2013 08:07:24 PM 1233 Views
My ability to detect humor and sarcasm in writing is very sporadic Isaac - 24/05/2013 10:28:03 PM 1089 Views
That's a shame. Legolas - 24/05/2013 11:55:37 PM 1031 Views
Re: That's a shame. Isaac - 25/05/2013 02:25:31 AM 1121 Views
Re: That's a shame. Legolas - 25/05/2013 12:17:13 PM 1040 Views
Sure, I'll bite. Legolas - 23/05/2013 09:23:54 PM 1226 Views
Until the "unwashed masses" no longer show up dancing in the streets... HyogaRott - 23/05/2013 09:40:59 PM 1133 Views
I hope you like black and white. nossy - 23/05/2013 09:50:03 PM 1081 Views
Not sure which point you think I missed that I should have responded to... HyogaRott - 24/05/2013 01:52:20 AM 1157 Views
I think I must have confused you. nossy - 24/05/2013 08:46:42 PM 1045 Views
I suppose that depends on which "points" precisely you thought you were making. Legolas - 23/05/2013 09:54:55 PM 1141 Views
Not really HyogaRott - 24/05/2013 02:36:41 AM 1167 Views
Yawn. Bored now. Legolas - 24/05/2013 08:18:27 PM 1095 Views
whatever *NM* HyogaRott - 28/05/2013 04:18:56 PM 641 Views
Do "unwashed masses" publicly APOLOGIZING for terrorism count? Joel - 12/08/2013 03:04:56 AM 1407 Views
Re: No, it actaully does not. Stephen - 24/05/2013 02:29:04 AM 1276 Views
Now let's not start with bullshit here Tom - 23/05/2013 01:54:48 PM 1495 Views
Tom, this is a rare occurance when we agree. HyogaRott - 23/05/2013 03:59:49 PM 1076 Views
That may be so, but the response was addressed to Ben. Tom - 23/05/2013 04:13:47 PM 1210 Views
Oops, my bad messed up reading the discussion tree... HyogaRott - 23/05/2013 06:15:34 PM 1176 Views
Excellent post - anyone that thinks all religions are the same is a complete moron. Anonymous2000 - 24/05/2013 03:32:26 AM 1331 Views
I don't approve of a great deal of popular Islamic thought. Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 05:13:51 AM 1314 Views
My thoughts exactly. *NM* ironclad - 24/05/2013 09:13:18 AM 646 Views
I agree. *NM* Stephen - 24/05/2013 12:05:46 PM 707 Views
Do you think that it will truly happen? Jeordam - 24/05/2013 05:47:50 PM 1273 Views
Might have something to do with colonialists ruining everything they can get their hands on. Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 06:09:13 PM 1133 Views
The first step on the road to recovery is aknowledging your responsibility for where you are and do HyogaRott - 24/05/2013 06:22:42 PM 1125 Views
Oh, so its our fault... Jeordam - 24/05/2013 06:38:14 PM 1166 Views
It's always our fault *NM* ßelals Girl - 24/05/2013 07:40:24 PM 833 Views
In general, I agree nossy - 24/05/2013 09:01:53 PM 1305 Views
That word "our" is interesting, don't you think? Legolas - 24/05/2013 09:09:24 PM 1145 Views
That was beautiful. *NM* Ghavrel - 24/05/2013 09:12:09 PM 766 Views
No, Ghavrel was doing that ßelals Girl - 25/05/2013 12:03:09 AM 1238 Views
I'm sure we all do it, that's kind of the point. Legolas - 25/05/2013 12:26:25 AM 1087 Views
but apparently it's only okay for some groups/people and not others. ßelals Girl - 25/05/2013 02:20:21 AM 1286 Views
Exactly. Tom - 25/05/2013 06:26:57 AM 1196 Views
Hyperbole? nossy - 25/05/2013 09:57:56 PM 1036 Views
Has anyone ever told you that? Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 10:33:32 PM 1297 Views
No, I really don't think so. Legolas - 25/05/2013 11:18:05 AM 1097 Views
*bashes face against keyboard in frustration* ßelals Girl - 25/05/2013 09:28:58 PM 1092 Views
Perhaps I should bow out and let Ghavrel speak for himself, then. Legolas - 25/05/2013 09:53:28 PM 1249 Views
It's accurate. *NM* Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 10:25:04 PM 721 Views
Re: but apparently it's only okay for some groups/people and not others. nossy - 25/05/2013 09:49:48 PM 1146 Views
Re: but apparently it's only okay for some groups/people and not others. ßelals Girl - 26/05/2013 12:48:45 AM 1266 Views
Hm nossy - 26/05/2013 10:10:49 AM 1211 Views
Also, yeah. Historically oppressive groups aren't equal to historically oppressed groups. Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 10:31:58 PM 1230 Views
Too simplistic AND a blatant justification for double standards I thought you didn't have ßelals Girl - 26/05/2013 01:02:07 AM 1190 Views
That's not racism. Racism requires systematic oppression. *NM* Ghavrel - 26/05/2013 01:14:08 AM 706 Views
No ßelals Girl - 26/05/2013 01:57:11 AM 1226 Views
Where whitey firmly belongs, in no small part because of posts like that. Ghavrel - 26/05/2013 02:00:59 AM 1192 Views
Lulz, you're claiming every member of a group deserves something because of what I said? ßelals Girl - 26/05/2013 02:11:36 AM 1165 Views
And now you know how Muslims feel. *NM* Ghavrel - 26/05/2013 03:48:33 AM 739 Views
I already knew ßelals Girl - 26/05/2013 04:02:02 AM 1123 Views
Just about every group has historically oppressed and BEEN oppressed at some time. Joel - 12/08/2013 04:00:54 AM 1255 Views
No. Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 10:28:24 PM 1141 Views
Oh, I don't think he's talking about past "colonialism" only. Tom - 25/05/2013 06:18:11 AM 1158 Views
Possibly. Some people do, to be sure, and there is some truth in that view. Legolas - 25/05/2013 11:27:36 AM 1059 Views
What a load of bullshit. Tom - 25/05/2013 06:14:02 AM 1146 Views
I don't think you can reasonably claim to separate Salafi thought from the geopolitics of the time. Ghavrel - 25/05/2013 10:23:03 PM 1182 Views
This is why I want to get the HELL out of there. Joel - 12/08/2013 04:16:39 AM 1305 Views
The difference with Islam is they lost the empire game but they were conquers random thoughts - 27/05/2013 12:42:05 AM 1284 Views
I'm gonna have to disagree with some of that. Legolas - 27/05/2013 07:06:53 PM 1124 Views
Yes it was very complex and the Crusaders were not saints (even the sainted ones) random thoughts - 29/05/2013 04:15:57 AM 1225 Views
Fair enough on all counts, then. *NM* Legolas - 29/05/2013 07:37:34 PM 681 Views
No, it had a bunch of opportunistic brown folks systematically dismantling it for centuries. Joel - 12/08/2013 03:43:00 AM 1160 Views
Some of my ancestors lived and caved and bashed each over the heads with rocks random thoughts - 26/05/2013 04:38:56 PM 1160 Views
Well yes. nossy - 26/05/2013 05:08:08 PM 1120 Views
I would prefer to say that random thoughts - 27/05/2013 01:26:57 AM 1330 Views
Of course you would. nossy - 27/05/2013 10:19:46 AM 1243 Views
I in no way support profiling people based on race or religion random thoughts - 29/05/2013 04:11:01 AM 1303 Views
Ok. nossy - 29/05/2013 08:54:34 PM 1306 Views
I think about the evolution of Western religion a lot. Joel - 12/08/2013 03:23:37 AM 1528 Views
There has been 14,000+ terrorist actions in the name of Islam since 9/11. Anonymous2000 - 24/05/2013 03:30:30 AM 1378 Views
That isn't a grown up answer. snoopcester - 23/05/2013 04:35:16 PM 1246 Views
Re: In the name of a religion that preaches violence? ßelals Girl - 23/05/2013 07:28:42 PM 1217 Views
His head will only be chopped off is he draws or insults Muhammad! *NM* Anonymous2000 - 24/05/2013 03:34:21 AM 743 Views
What does he have to do to get on TV? *NM* ßelals Girl - 24/05/2013 07:45:53 PM 675 Views
Statistically snoopcester - 24/05/2013 10:22:29 AM 1297 Views
What kind of horrifying bugs to you guys HAVE over there??? ßelals Girl - 24/05/2013 02:13:23 PM 1275 Views
Hardly any snoopcester - 24/05/2013 02:16:46 PM 1394 Views
Your solution is profiling...because it's time to *stop* thinking all folks are the same? *NM* Sareitha Sedai - 23/05/2013 02:36:32 PM 656 Views
I don't think we've ever encouraged people to think all folks are the same Isaac - 23/05/2013 07:29:54 PM 1099 Views
"Perhaps it's time to stop thinking all folks are the same?" ~A2k Sareitha Sedai - 23/05/2013 07:49:12 PM 1088 Views
I think he's pointing to the encuragement of willful blindedness with that remark Isaac - 23/05/2013 08:15:55 PM 1119 Views
I think probably not. nossy - 23/05/2013 07:57:53 PM 1174 Views
See Tom's post above for the facts..... *NM* Anonymous2000 - 24/05/2013 03:36:18 AM 668 Views
That your original post was absurd? Thank you, but I got that on my own. *NM* nossy - 24/05/2013 09:09:21 PM 662 Views
It shows what a silly little fool you are, but that's your choice. *NM* Anonymous2000 - 24/05/2013 09:19:04 PM 650 Views
Hey man, you're the one who told me Tom's post had the facts. nossy - 24/05/2013 09:20:53 PM 1104 Views
It means exactly what I said. He did a great job! *NM* Anonymous2000 - 24/05/2013 09:23:44 PM 699 Views
Yes, he did. nossy - 24/05/2013 09:30:42 PM 1163 Views
Also, don't tell him I said I take him seriously. *NM* nossy - 24/05/2013 09:34:59 PM 692 Views
But wouldn't religion-based profile activities... Jeordam - 23/05/2013 10:54:33 PM 1093 Views
My brain is slow right now, but I think I completely agree. nossy - 23/05/2013 11:00:31 PM 1200 Views
You mean like this? Larry - 24/05/2013 08:15:16 PM 1281 Views
Sorry bu the comparison isn't valid random thoughts - 25/05/2013 09:50:34 PM 1103 Views
+1 - Larry is an honest guy and will realize his error. *NM* Anonymous2000 - 25/05/2013 10:53:14 PM 691 Views
Numbers alone do not change the validity of such Larry - 25/05/2013 11:15:17 PM 1183 Views
Yes it does. Anonymous2000 - 26/05/2013 12:23:27 AM 1185 Views
*sigh* Larry - 26/05/2013 12:46:49 AM 1058 Views
I think asking most Americans for recognition of a non-binary political paradigm is a bit much. *NM* Ghavrel - 26/05/2013 01:16:30 AM 713 Views
no liberalisn is sane and well thought in comparison random thoughts - 26/05/2013 04:04:39 PM 1062 Views
no but they do tell a story random thoughts - 26/05/2013 04:27:26 PM 1021 Views
UPDATE - Cleric/Teacher of one of the murderers praises him for "courage". Anonymous2000 - 24/05/2013 09:22:24 PM 1210 Views
Do you have a functional link? *NM* Stephen - 25/05/2013 12:19:01 AM 704 Views
The link works for me (Yahoo news) - here is the text. Anonymous2000 - 25/05/2013 02:05:41 AM 1349 Views
Re: Maybe it is time to start treating muslims a little differently? dart_board - 27/05/2013 02:28:31 PM 1783 Views
Please have a look at the attached list and tell me who "they" are, exactly. nossy - 27/05/2013 03:22:41 PM 1239 Views
Just as a little aside Tom - 28/05/2013 12:51:48 AM 1117 Views
Ever helpful. nossy - 28/05/2013 10:23:12 PM 1306 Views
Re: Please have a look at the attached list and tell me who "they" are, exactly. dart_board - 28/05/2013 04:56:55 PM 1701 Views
Re: Please have a look at the attached list and tell me who "they" are, exactly. nossy - 28/05/2013 10:18:40 PM 1275 Views
Re: Please have a look at the attached list and tell me who "they" are, exactly. dart_board - 29/05/2013 08:57:17 PM 1729 Views
I'm having warm feelings. nossy - 29/05/2013 09:38:45 PM 1263 Views
Re: I'm having warm feelings. dart_board - 30/05/2013 12:46:57 AM 1575 Views
"Who else? Major League Baseball. " Joel - 12/08/2013 04:34:48 AM 1490 Views
I can't believe I missed this thread. *NM* Dan - 01/06/2013 10:08:08 AM 940 Views
How much did you miss it, really? Joel - 12/08/2013 04:38:21 AM 1198 Views
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