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Sure, I'll bite. Legolas Send a noteboard - 23/05/2013 09:23:54 PM

View original post Islam, on the other hand, does in fact condone and call for violence against any who do not adhere to their faith. It sanctions virtually any and all actions against those people. Yes you can find parts of the religion which specifically call for peaceful relations wit other faiths. However, the vas majority of those passages are from the early parts of the Quran. There is a specific teaching of Islam, and I forget the word that encompasses it, but unlike with the Christian Bible, if 2 passages of the Quran contradict, the newest passage holds precedent. This means that if on page 2 it sys to treat everybody nice, but on page 50 it says to kill them, well it sucks for you cause you are gonna die.

I hate to break it to you, but the Qur'an is not written in chronological order. Other than that, the Qur'an also has the downside (or advantage, depending on the situation and on how you look at it) of being decidedly vague on a lot of things, and having an absurd amount of verses that seem to refer obliquely to some particular event, without it being very clear what exactly they refer to. The result is that the Qur'an is extremely open to interpretation, even by the standards of religious books. And the theory of later verses superseding earlier ones - assuming that one can even be sure about which verse is later, which is also not always clear - is merely one possible view of how to reconcile seeming contradictions.

In any case, though, there's very little in the Qur'an that really condones violence (most of the violent things usually quoted as proof come from the hadith), and on the topic of murdering innocents in peacetime, you'd have to look very far and stretch very far to find a justification.

Most importantly of all, though, there is no single "Islam" in much the same way there is no single "Christianity". An uncomfortably large number of Muslims condones violence in at least certain circumstances, even if those condoning real terrorism are few and far between, that's true. But if you say that "Islam does in fact condone and call for violence", you're suggesting that the many Muslims who do not are somehow doing it wrong, or are not real Muslims. And that is most definitely very wrong.

View original post With all that said, can a Muslim be a good person and lead a life in harmony with everyone around them? Yep they sure can, and many, perhaps even most, do. Unfortunately, they do so in silence. Let’s revisit our old friends the Westboro church for a moment and think about the VERY vocal public reaction they receive from the rest of the Christian community, and then compare that to the vocal Public reaction that groups like Al Qaeda receive. Have you EVER seen a major Islamic religious figure publicly condemning acts of violence against another faith? When was the last time you saw a Million Muslim March for peace? Yeah, you will occasionally see someone on MSNBC or some other US news network mouthing some platitudes, but NEVER on Al-Jazeera. Even when they do appear on US news their statements are usually something along the lines of "what a tragedy, Islam is a religion of peace, Its a shame the US did "X" and made them so mad that they anally raped your ambassador, killed him, and drug his body through the streets"

Wikipedia has some nice "Reactions to (insert name of big event)" pages, so it's not as if this requires serious research. I'll even leave in the reactions that did condone violence, so that you can feel you're not entirely wrong (which of course is the case). Below is about the 2005 London bombings.



The Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia, Sheikh Abdul Aziz Al-Asheikh denounced the deadly blasts that rocked London, saying ""Killing and terrorising innocent people and the destruction of property are not condoned by Islam". He also censured the terrorists for tarnishing the image of Islam by attaching their heinous crimes to the religion.[73]
The Muslim Council of Britain said that it "utterly condemns" the "indiscriminate acts of terror".[74]
The Australian Muslim Civil Rights Advocacy Network have issued a public statement condemning the attacks, offering their condolences to the British people, and pledging their support in bringing the terrorists to justice.[75]
The Council on American-Islamic Relations condemned the attacks, stating "We join Americans of all faiths, and all people of conscience worldwide, in condemning these barbaric crimes that can never be justified or excused. American Muslims offer their sincere condolences to the loved ones of those who were killed or injured in today's attacks and call for the swift apprehension and punishment of the perpetrators".[76]
The Islamic Circle of North America released a statement saying, "The Islamic Circle of North America (ICNA) is shocked and horrified at the several attacks on the people of London during the rush hour mass transit. We join everyone in condemning such acts of terror and senseless violence. Our thoughts and prayers are with the victims and their loved ones at this tragic moment. We trust that the authorities will determine those responsible for these barbaric acts and bring them to justice quickly".[77]
Leading Lebanese Shi'ite Muslim scholar Mohammad Hussein Fadlallah stated, "These crimes are not accepted by any religion. It is a barbarism wholly rejected by Islam."
Many Muslim Britons were deeply hurt and disgusted at these attacks, especially due to the fact that the bomb site by Aldgate station had a huge surrounding Muslim and Asian community. However, they cited the British government foreign policy as the main reason for the attacks. One in four British Muslims supports the reasons mentioned by the terrorists.[7
Al Qaeda cleric Omar Bakri Mohammed approved of the bombings and called them a "warning" for the British government.[79]
The cousin of Shehzad Tanweer, one of the suicide bombers, approved of the suicide bombings by Tanweer and called him a "good Muslim".[80]
About 2,000 villagers in Shehzad Tanweer's Pakistani village of origin prayed for him at his funeral.[80]
Grand Imam Mohammed Sayyed Tantawi of Cairo's Al-Azhar University condemned the attacks and said that the attacks could be not justified as an attempt to force Britain out of Iraq. "This is illogical and cannot be the motive for killing innocent civilians".[81]



Oh, and I also came across this, because as they say a picture says more than a thousand words.

View original post Islam CAN be a religion of peace, but only when the practitioners of it publicly rise up AGAINST those who would have it be something else and make it be one. Unfortunately, they have never done this, and I seriously doubt it will occur in my lifetime.

And if you like catchy tunes, this became a massive #1 hit in Pakistan a few years ago in the best We Are the World tradition. The lyrics are admittedly somewhat obscure, but the message at the beginning of the video is clear enough, I trust.

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Maybe it is time to start treating muslims a little differently? - 23/05/2013 03:55:28 AM 2709 Views
Nah, you're just a bigot. *NM* - 23/05/2013 08:21:33 AM 790 Views
Yes, I am against religions that call for violence. *NM* - 23/05/2013 12:23:31 PM 703 Views
Wasn't aware you were against Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Zoroastrianism, Shinto... *NM* - 23/05/2013 12:59:04 PM 775 Views
Where does Christianity call for violence? - 23/05/2013 03:55:11 PM 1227 Views
Dueteronomy 13: 1-5 states that you must kill prophets of other religions. - 23/05/2013 07:44:48 PM 1306 Views
The Old Testament is not Christianity. It is where Christianity CAME from. *NM* - 23/05/2013 09:25:12 PM 716 Views
FALSE! - 24/05/2013 01:41:50 PM 1332 Views
*sigh* And in fulfilling the "law" he created a new covenant which supplanted the old.. - 24/05/2013 06:09:43 PM 1292 Views
All the death of Christ did was attone for the sins of the world. - 26/05/2013 03:00:26 AM 1458 Views
Sorry, you are wrong. - 28/05/2013 04:17:51 PM 1302 Views
No. The New Covenant SUPPLEMENTS, not supplants, the Old. - 12/08/2013 02:45:55 AM 1585 Views
Ok....and? - 23/05/2013 10:36:55 PM 1163 Views
You might want to slap some qualifiers on there *NM* - 23/05/2013 07:50:43 PM 760 Views
Actually, I very intentionally didn't put any qualifiers on that... - 23/05/2013 10:38:24 PM 1233 Views
The Cleansing of the Temple shows a legitimized use of physical force. *NM* - 24/05/2013 05:05:55 AM 802 Views
Oh, boo hoo.... - 24/05/2013 03:50:18 PM 1296 Views
LOL. - 24/05/2013 04:45:50 PM 1238 Views
Violence.... - 24/05/2013 05:32:47 PM 1225 Views
Whipping people to drive them away of something is violence. It's not negotiable. - 24/05/2013 06:06:42 PM 1095 Views
You are something... - 24/05/2013 06:29:03 PM 1160 Views
Also, spanking has been pretty soundly debunked as good parenting. Maybe not a good analogy. *NM* - 24/05/2013 06:16:18 PM 776 Views
Because children are more behaved now.... - 24/05/2013 06:21:43 PM 1149 Views
I don't favor spanking but the studies 'debunking it' are mostly 'bunk' - 24/05/2013 10:29:28 PM 1241 Views
Yes. - 24/05/2013 10:42:51 PM 1160 Views
Re: Yes. - 25/05/2013 12:22:56 AM 1202 Views
You know better than that. - 25/05/2013 06:52:32 AM 1220 Views
I think you just claimed that my statement as to my opinion is anecdotal evidence of that opinion - 25/05/2013 09:26:21 AM 1306 Views
I was talking about your reference to your upbringing as relevant to the statistical trend. *NM* - 25/05/2013 09:49:19 AM 705 Views
Yes, but I wasn't claiming it was relevant in that way - 25/05/2013 10:15:52 AM 1184 Views
... ? *NM* - 25/05/2013 12:58:43 PM 746 Views
I couldn't remember the code for *NM* - 25/05/2013 07:57:48 PM 697 Views
I wouldn't belong to any other kind of religion. - 25/05/2013 01:21:45 AM 1197 Views
And the night was finished with a mob of white men attacking the police in the name of bigotry - 23/05/2013 09:51:02 AM 1113 Views
In the name of a religion that preaches violence? - 23/05/2013 12:21:59 PM 1273 Views
Islam "preaches" violence just about as much as Christianity does. - 23/05/2013 12:46:00 PM 1199 Views
it's actually pretty funny because many people understand Islam to, derivatively, mean peace - 23/05/2013 01:44:18 PM 1211 Views
Your argument is logically flawed - 23/05/2013 02:02:33 PM 1301 Views
Re: Your argument is logically flawed - 23/05/2013 02:34:22 PM 1314 Views
No, it actaully does not. - 23/05/2013 01:51:51 PM 1291 Views
Maybe they will be, I don't know, KILLED for standing up - 23/05/2013 02:24:59 PM 1095 Views
Exactly - 23/05/2013 03:52:25 PM 1221 Views
Couple of things - 23/05/2013 08:13:57 PM 1539 Views
Unfortunately they are NOT consistant in their messaging... see my link - 23/05/2013 09:30:53 PM 1377 Views
Really? Of all the criticisms you could make of Qaradawi, you whine about that? - 23/05/2013 09:58:50 PM 1238 Views
I think the key point there is that the MCB supported him for a visa in spite of that... - 23/05/2013 11:05:14 PM 1214 Views
So much for my attempt to bring a little levity to things. - 24/05/2013 08:07:24 PM 1241 Views
My ability to detect humor and sarcasm in writing is very sporadic - 24/05/2013 10:28:03 PM 1099 Views
That's a shame. - 24/05/2013 11:55:37 PM 1039 Views
Re: That's a shame. - 25/05/2013 02:25:31 AM 1133 Views
Re: That's a shame. - 25/05/2013 12:17:13 PM 1052 Views
Sure, I'll bite. - 23/05/2013 09:23:54 PM 1235 Views
Until the "unwashed masses" no longer show up dancing in the streets... - 23/05/2013 09:40:59 PM 1151 Views
I hope you like black and white. - 23/05/2013 09:50:03 PM 1090 Views
Not sure which point you think I missed that I should have responded to... - 24/05/2013 01:52:20 AM 1170 Views
I think I must have confused you. - 24/05/2013 08:46:42 PM 1053 Views
I suppose that depends on which "points" precisely you thought you were making. - 23/05/2013 09:54:55 PM 1149 Views
Not really - 24/05/2013 02:36:41 AM 1176 Views
Yawn. Bored now. - 24/05/2013 08:18:27 PM 1103 Views
whatever *NM* - 28/05/2013 04:18:56 PM 644 Views
Do "unwashed masses" publicly APOLOGIZING for terrorism count? - 12/08/2013 03:04:56 AM 1415 Views
Re: No, it actaully does not. - 24/05/2013 02:29:04 AM 1284 Views
Now let's not start with bullshit here - 23/05/2013 01:54:48 PM 1503 Views
Tom, this is a rare occurance when we agree. - 23/05/2013 03:59:49 PM 1084 Views
That may be so, but the response was addressed to Ben. - 23/05/2013 04:13:47 PM 1219 Views
Oops, my bad messed up reading the discussion tree... - 23/05/2013 06:15:34 PM 1184 Views
I don't approve of a great deal of popular Islamic thought. - 24/05/2013 05:13:51 AM 1323 Views
My thoughts exactly. *NM* - 24/05/2013 09:13:18 AM 649 Views
I agree. *NM* - 24/05/2013 12:05:46 PM 711 Views
Do you think that it will truly happen? - 24/05/2013 05:47:50 PM 1281 Views
Might have something to do with colonialists ruining everything they can get their hands on. - 24/05/2013 06:09:13 PM 1141 Views
Oh, so its our fault... - 24/05/2013 06:38:14 PM 1174 Views
It's always our fault *NM* - 24/05/2013 07:40:24 PM 837 Views
In general, I agree - 24/05/2013 09:01:53 PM 1314 Views
That word "our" is interesting, don't you think? - 24/05/2013 09:09:24 PM 1161 Views
That was beautiful. *NM* - 24/05/2013 09:12:09 PM 770 Views
No, Ghavrel was doing that - 25/05/2013 12:03:09 AM 1246 Views
I'm sure we all do it, that's kind of the point. - 25/05/2013 12:26:25 AM 1096 Views
but apparently it's only okay for some groups/people and not others. - 25/05/2013 02:20:21 AM 1295 Views
Exactly. - 25/05/2013 06:26:57 AM 1204 Views
Hyperbole? - 25/05/2013 09:57:56 PM 1045 Views
Has anyone ever told you that? - 25/05/2013 10:33:32 PM 1311 Views
No, I really don't think so. - 25/05/2013 11:18:05 AM 1105 Views
*bashes face against keyboard in frustration* - 25/05/2013 09:28:58 PM 1102 Views
Perhaps I should bow out and let Ghavrel speak for himself, then. - 25/05/2013 09:53:28 PM 1262 Views
It's accurate. *NM* - 25/05/2013 10:25:04 PM 728 Views
Re: but apparently it's only okay for some groups/people and not others. - 25/05/2013 09:49:48 PM 1155 Views
Re: but apparently it's only okay for some groups/people and not others. - 26/05/2013 12:48:45 AM 1275 Views
Hm - 26/05/2013 10:10:49 AM 1221 Views
Also, yeah. Historically oppressive groups aren't equal to historically oppressed groups. - 25/05/2013 10:31:58 PM 1238 Views
Too simplistic AND a blatant justification for double standards I thought you didn't have - 26/05/2013 01:02:07 AM 1199 Views
That's not racism. Racism requires systematic oppression. *NM* - 26/05/2013 01:14:08 AM 709 Views
No - 26/05/2013 01:57:11 AM 1237 Views
Where whitey firmly belongs, in no small part because of posts like that. - 26/05/2013 02:00:59 AM 1202 Views
Lulz, you're claiming every member of a group deserves something because of what I said? - 26/05/2013 02:11:36 AM 1174 Views
And now you know how Muslims feel. *NM* - 26/05/2013 03:48:33 AM 749 Views
I already knew - 26/05/2013 04:02:02 AM 1132 Views
No. - 25/05/2013 10:28:24 PM 1151 Views
What a load of bullshit. - 25/05/2013 06:14:02 AM 1155 Views
This is why I want to get the HELL out of there. - 12/08/2013 04:16:39 AM 1314 Views
The difference with Islam is they lost the empire game but they were conquers - 27/05/2013 12:42:05 AM 1291 Views
I'm gonna have to disagree with some of that. - 27/05/2013 07:06:53 PM 1130 Views
Yes it was very complex and the Crusaders were not saints (even the sainted ones) - 29/05/2013 04:15:57 AM 1239 Views
Fair enough on all counts, then. *NM* - 29/05/2013 07:37:34 PM 686 Views
Some of my ancestors lived and caved and bashed each over the heads with rocks - 26/05/2013 04:38:56 PM 1166 Views
Well yes. - 26/05/2013 05:08:08 PM 1128 Views
I would prefer to say that - 27/05/2013 01:26:57 AM 1336 Views
Of course you would. - 27/05/2013 10:19:46 AM 1251 Views
I in no way support profiling people based on race or religion - 29/05/2013 04:11:01 AM 1312 Views
Ok. - 29/05/2013 08:54:34 PM 1315 Views
I think about the evolution of Western religion a lot. - 12/08/2013 03:23:37 AM 1542 Views
There has been 14,000+ terrorist actions in the name of Islam since 9/11. - 24/05/2013 03:30:30 AM 1389 Views
That isn't a grown up answer. - 23/05/2013 04:35:16 PM 1255 Views
Re: In the name of a religion that preaches violence? - 23/05/2013 07:28:42 PM 1226 Views
His head will only be chopped off is he draws or insults Muhammad! *NM* - 24/05/2013 03:34:21 AM 748 Views
What does he have to do to get on TV? *NM* - 24/05/2013 07:45:53 PM 682 Views
Statistically - 24/05/2013 10:22:29 AM 1308 Views
What kind of horrifying bugs to you guys HAVE over there??? - 24/05/2013 02:13:23 PM 1283 Views
Hardly any - 24/05/2013 02:16:46 PM 1404 Views
I think probably not. - 23/05/2013 07:57:53 PM 1189 Views
See Tom's post above for the facts..... *NM* - 24/05/2013 03:36:18 AM 673 Views
That your original post was absurd? Thank you, but I got that on my own. *NM* - 24/05/2013 09:09:21 PM 666 Views
It shows what a silly little fool you are, but that's your choice. *NM* - 24/05/2013 09:19:04 PM 655 Views
Hey man, you're the one who told me Tom's post had the facts. - 24/05/2013 09:20:53 PM 1113 Views
It means exactly what I said. He did a great job! *NM* - 24/05/2013 09:23:44 PM 703 Views
Yes, he did. - 24/05/2013 09:30:42 PM 1172 Views
Also, don't tell him I said I take him seriously. *NM* - 24/05/2013 09:34:59 PM 696 Views
But wouldn't religion-based profile activities... - 23/05/2013 10:54:33 PM 1101 Views
My brain is slow right now, but I think I completely agree. - 23/05/2013 11:00:31 PM 1208 Views
You mean like this? - 24/05/2013 08:15:16 PM 1288 Views
Sorry bu the comparison isn't valid - 25/05/2013 09:50:34 PM 1112 Views
+1 - Larry is an honest guy and will realize his error. *NM* - 25/05/2013 10:53:14 PM 695 Views
Numbers alone do not change the validity of such - 25/05/2013 11:15:17 PM 1192 Views
Yes it does. - 26/05/2013 12:23:27 AM 1193 Views
*sigh* - 26/05/2013 12:46:49 AM 1066 Views
no liberalisn is sane and well thought in comparison - 26/05/2013 04:04:39 PM 1072 Views
no but they do tell a story - 26/05/2013 04:27:26 PM 1030 Views
UPDATE - Cleric/Teacher of one of the murderers praises him for "courage". - 24/05/2013 09:22:24 PM 1217 Views
Do you have a functional link? *NM* - 25/05/2013 12:19:01 AM 708 Views
The link works for me (Yahoo news) - here is the text. - 25/05/2013 02:05:41 AM 1358 Views
Re: Maybe it is time to start treating muslims a little differently? - 27/05/2013 02:28:31 PM 1789 Views
Please have a look at the attached list and tell me who "they" are, exactly. - 27/05/2013 03:22:41 PM 1245 Views
Just as a little aside - 28/05/2013 12:51:48 AM 1123 Views
Ever helpful. - 28/05/2013 10:23:12 PM 1315 Views
Re: Please have a look at the attached list and tell me who "they" are, exactly. - 28/05/2013 04:56:55 PM 1717 Views
Re: Please have a look at the attached list and tell me who "they" are, exactly. - 28/05/2013 10:18:40 PM 1281 Views
Re: Please have a look at the attached list and tell me who "they" are, exactly. - 29/05/2013 08:57:17 PM 1745 Views
I'm having warm feelings. - 29/05/2013 09:38:45 PM 1273 Views
Re: I'm having warm feelings. - 30/05/2013 12:46:57 AM 1584 Views
"Who else? Major League Baseball. " - 12/08/2013 04:34:48 AM 1499 Views
I can't believe I missed this thread. *NM* - 01/06/2013 10:08:08 AM 948 Views
How much did you miss it, really? - 12/08/2013 04:38:21 AM 1205 Views

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