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Fuel costs are linear to mass, total costs are probably less Isaac Send a noteboard - 25/04/2013 12:20:55 AM

View original postIn order to give the people even the smallest chance of survival, a lot of equipment and supplies would have to be sent, which in turn requires a lot of fuel to push all that weight into space, which in further turn requires even more fuel to carry the extra fuel. It all adds up to an extremely expensive project with a high chance of failure.

All things in sending 100 tons won't cost us 100x as much as one ton. Of course if we can bust out the nuclear thermal rockets we might be able to cut fuel costs a lot, but IIRC the mass fraction to LEO is like 1600 tons of fuel for 80 tons of shuttle, mass ratio of 20:1 but a payload of only about 25 tons, Earth surface to Mars is like is like 70:1 optimistically, and probably even a 25% payload would be nice even for a disposable vehicle. 70 tons of fuel for 1 ton of spaceship isn't too ideal, especially when its probably at best 250 tons of fuel for each ton landed on Mars, one-way trip. Of course the distance doesn't matter for the fuel directly, it matters for all the damn supplies and extra spare equipment you need adding more mass needing more fuel.


View original postIf they truly are attempting to work through the issues and be visionary, then there's something to be commended in that. But if they're only trying to cash in on registration fees or the money from reality tv shows to pick the astronauts, then my sympathy diminishes.

I doubt their motives are particularly impure, and there is a strong feeling that NASA is too cautious and spends more than is needed, there's some truth to that. We've been talking about commercializing space travel for a while, looking at the marketing/TV angle as part of the budget makes sense. Personally I think that small a crew on such an inherently stressful mission already runs a high enough risk of going ax crazy without adding the damn fish bowl aspect turned up to eleven by the change in audience and crew composition. We won't be sending 40-year old career military and science sorts with wives/husbands and kids who they can chat with on the phone. We won't send kids, they won't be able to have kids there, and they will never see a spouse again except by time delayed video. We can send couples, who can't have kids, but then it better be two couples, or three, I forget if its 4 or 6 people, but that's not too likely to be wonderfully stable either. The whole thing is a ball full of crazy waiting to happen.


View original postAll that said, I like the comforts of Earth too much to want to be a pioneer.

The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein

King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
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If you could, would you move permanently to Mars? - 24/04/2013 03:30:55 AM 1527 Views
You want to go where? *NM* - 24/04/2013 06:29:07 AM 447 Views
Have you read the 'Mars' trilogy by Kim Stanley Robinson? - 24/04/2013 06:37:26 AM 954 Views
Well, I'll look into it. - 24/04/2013 07:13:05 PM 846 Views
"Digital Descendants" - 25/04/2013 09:30:54 PM 870 Views
I think it's incredible that such a thing is even being attempted - 24/04/2013 08:13:16 AM 947 Views
I know. It really perplexes me that so many people are so down on it. - 24/04/2013 07:19:42 PM 893 Views
I am not gonna lie - 24/04/2013 08:24:57 AM 885 Views
No, and definitely not with this group - 24/04/2013 10:26:03 AM 960 Views
What's the problem, technically? - 24/04/2013 07:24:22 PM 862 Views
Basically? Mass and redundancy - 24/04/2013 10:40:30 PM 780 Views
The mass is what I wondered about. - 24/04/2013 11:03:36 PM 822 Views
Fuel costs are linear to mass, total costs are probably less - 25/04/2013 12:20:55 AM 773 Views
To put this in perspective, adding to Issac's points - 25/04/2013 01:50:38 AM 832 Views
That's not really a fair comparison. - 25/04/2013 08:18:35 PM 792 Views
Re: That's not really a fair comparison. - 26/04/2013 02:22:18 AM 745 Views
Re: That's not really a fair comparison. - 26/04/2013 08:58:45 PM 926 Views
I agree with your points, but you've still only listed financial (not technical) problems. - 25/04/2013 08:22:25 PM 807 Views
Finacial problems are technical problems - 25/04/2013 10:19:17 PM 797 Views
Maybe we just have different definitions. - 26/04/2013 09:25:33 PM 835 Views
Re: Maybe we just have different definitions. - 26/04/2013 10:54:11 PM 798 Views
So, suppose someone put you in charge. - 27/04/2013 02:14:44 AM 835 Views
Well that would be a bad idea, but... - 27/04/2013 03:29:47 PM 936 Views
Ask me when I am 60, I adored the Mar Trilogy though *NM* - 24/04/2013 12:54:58 PM 491 Views
It's all about prospects and hard work. - 24/04/2013 03:16:56 PM 938 Views
I wouldn't go like that. - 24/04/2013 05:15:09 PM 836 Views
No, but I wouldn't mind sending a few people there - 25/04/2013 01:52:56 AM 843 Views
Not with that. - 25/04/2013 07:32:40 PM 788 Views
Probably. - 26/04/2013 10:02:58 PM 730 Views
This is by far the most elaborate form of suicide ever proposed. - 10/08/2013 08:04:43 AM 1490 Views

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