Active Users:344 Time:09/04/2025 12:18:02 AM
Her bill tried to eliminate my (and everone's) right to own all but 2,000 specific weapons. HyogaRott Send a noteboard - 24/03/2013 12:30:56 PM

We have the Constitutionally protected right to keep and bear arms, not to keep and bear only certain specific weapons. Just like we have the protected right to freedom of the press, not freedom to print something on only a movable type hand powered printing press.

Too often this discussion gets parsed into the mind-frame of "do you NEED such and such weapon"; or "Why do you need such-n-such", when the real weight should be in the opposite direction. Because our Constitution declares that the citizens have the Right to keep and bear arms, and forbids the government to infringe upon that inherent Right, if the state desires to do so, it must have an overwhelmingly compelling, and specific, argument to be able to do so. There is no overwhelmingly compelling argument for banning ALL the US citizens from owning any of those specified weapons. Frankly I don't think that most of the existing gun ownership laws (and many other of our laws in fact)are within the intention of the Constitution.

As I've said before I agree that there are some common sense limitations that could exist. However, the attempted method of implementing them is horribly flawed. We can not let Congress pass laws the limit one of our Constitutionally protected Rights, because it seemed like a good idea at the time. By doing so we are opening the door for them to limit ANY of those other protected rights. IF someone feels that one of those Rights should be reduced in scope, then they need to make a much better argument, and get an amendment to our Constitution passed, not just pass an ordinary law.

We let it happen in the 30s from the fear of the mafia when the federal government virtually banned the real assault (fully automatic) weapons. In order to own one you must pay for an expensive federal license (as well as other heavy restrictions). If owning property, or paying a poll tax, infringes on a citizens Constitutional right to vote in an election, then an expensive federal license does the same thing to keeping an bearing arms.

Reply to message
US Senate Democrats - already cave-in on the gun control bill - 19/03/2013 10:44:55 PM 1379 Views
right wingers are always point out there is no point legislating cosmetics - 19/03/2013 11:52:28 PM 798 Views
Late Term Abortion, Terry Schavio? *NM* - 19/03/2013 11:57:25 PM 395 Views
You know, what you are hoping for will not make any difference whatsoever..... - 20/03/2013 01:07:58 AM 664 Views
"if at first you don't succeed..... fuck it...." - 20/03/2013 04:10:47 AM 672 Views
I can agree with some of what you stated, though I prefer "logical" to "right winger" - 20/03/2013 01:56:34 AM 710 Views
you are correct. i forget sometimes that there **is** some common ground here.... - 20/03/2013 04:19:13 AM 621 Views
There'd be more common ground if anything were ever offered in exchange for concessions - 20/03/2013 02:20:26 PM 669 Views
Ben Franklin said it best... - 20/03/2013 04:14:45 PM 642 Views
interesting how that quote always applies to so many things, isn't it? - 20/03/2013 05:14:30 PM 629 Views
Absolutely - 21/03/2013 12:20:45 AM 700 Views
Re: Ben Franklin said it best... - 21/03/2013 07:16:25 AM 744 Views
There can be NO negotiation, that is the point. This is a Constitutionally protected Right. - 21/03/2013 01:03:54 PM 676 Views
1st Amendment absolutism suggests libel and slander are unconstitutional. - 21/03/2013 07:24:34 PM 670 Views
One person's rights end where another's begin, as you well know. - 22/03/2013 02:38:37 AM 650 Views
all the same, none of the proposed laws truly infringe on your right to keep or use those guns.... - 22/03/2013 07:29:52 PM 709 Views
Apparently you did not read Feinstein's, you know the one that started this whole thread... - 23/03/2013 06:26:57 PM 665 Views
i'm aware of her statements, you'll have to actually prove your point.... - 24/03/2013 03:35:11 AM 580 Views
Her bill tried to eliminate my (and everone's) right to own all but 2,000 specific weapons. - 24/03/2013 12:30:56 PM 668 Views
"A well-regulated militia...." - 25/03/2013 07:27:48 PM 781 Views
and by REGULATED, the authors meant "able to use it effectively" - 26/03/2013 01:23:07 PM 678 Views
we are long past the point where defense against tyranny is feasible - 26/03/2013 07:48:37 PM 663 Views
Feasibility is not the issue, it is the rule of law. - 27/03/2013 03:55:24 PM 739 Views
if there have to be concessions, what do you recommend? - 20/03/2013 05:10:53 PM 746 Views
That would depend, something of equal value - 20/03/2013 09:13:23 PM 639 Views
when very little is being given up, how do we determine equal value? - 20/03/2013 10:31:59 PM 911 Views
Outside of legislature people do it all the time, its called negotiation and bargaining - 21/03/2013 10:53:22 AM 661 Views
Re: Outside of legislature people do it all the time, its called negotiation and bargaining - 21/03/2013 07:16:57 PM 714 Views
Re: Outside of legislature people do it all the time, its called negotiation and bargaining - 21/03/2013 08:53:20 PM 796 Views
some answers - 21/03/2013 10:04:45 PM 1030 Views
Re: some answers - 21/03/2013 11:33:21 PM 795 Views
Re: the NRA - 22/03/2013 07:44:06 PM 655 Views
This is a matter of POV bias - 22/03/2013 09:04:25 PM 589 Views
we will have to agree to disagree then - 22/03/2013 10:12:02 PM 647 Views
I already knew we disagreed, that's why I suggested bargaining - 22/03/2013 11:11:04 PM 616 Views
i am merely taking the NRA at their word(s) - 23/03/2013 12:13:18 AM 590 Views
Re: i am merely taking the NRA at their word(s) - 23/03/2013 02:04:39 AM 851 Views
i am not trying to sway, just come to an understanding - 23/03/2013 03:03:14 PM 817 Views
I think you've actually managed to widen our gap - 23/03/2013 03:53:55 PM 825 Views
yes, because it was a failed attempt to re-boot and start the debate from the beginning..... - 24/03/2013 03:33:05 AM 1007 Views
I've difficulty seeing the point of going back to first principles but I'm willing to try - 24/03/2013 02:13:29 PM 628 Views
this has been more insightful than our previous tit-for-tat responses, actually - 26/03/2013 07:40:27 PM 613 Views
There's always room for reaosnable dialogue - 26/03/2013 10:09:58 PM 899 Views
even so, we are at yet another impasse.... - 26/03/2013 11:37:04 PM 716 Views
Probably, I don't know why that surprises you - 27/03/2013 02:02:54 AM 599 Views
I can see the argument for limiting magazine capapcity but it would be hard to enforce - 20/03/2013 05:11:51 PM 642 Views
It would be a stupid meaningless "feel good" law as changing magazines takes almost no time. *NM* - 21/03/2013 01:05:34 PM 350 Views
I can't argue that - 21/03/2013 06:14:09 PM 658 Views
canada's magazine restrictions are credited with reducing fatalities in a mass shooting - 21/03/2013 07:22:45 PM 728 Views
what is high capacity? - 21/03/2013 11:09:09 PM 622 Views
according to the law, whatever is larger than the legal limit - 21/03/2013 11:31:08 PM 647 Views
There is no gun control, only gun *centralization* - 20/03/2013 05:32:59 PM 683 Views
Regarding guns sold which are used in crimes - 20/03/2013 10:41:21 PM 630 Views
Your specified legal requirements already exist. *NM* - 21/03/2013 02:05:12 AM 341 Views
So what other stipulations would you put into effect? *NM* - 21/03/2013 02:42:53 AM 327 Views
none- I'd simply actually punish criminals instead of trying to "reform" them. *NM* - 21/03/2013 01:13:29 PM 351 Views
Criminals need to be punished AND reformed for their inevitable release back into society *NM* - 21/03/2013 11:58:20 PM 322 Views
I've always been rather partial to the criminal justice system in Heinlein's Starship Troopers novel - 22/03/2013 02:42:09 AM 732 Views
Yeah you're right. Let's just kill everybody who commits a crime - 22/03/2013 02:46:49 AM 664 Views
*NM* - 22/03/2013 10:55:36 AM 350 Views
That's not in Starship Troopers - 22/03/2013 12:51:44 PM 660 Views
Yeah, there was a small number of capital offenses (13 I think), most not specified. - 22/03/2013 05:27:11 PM 636 Views
14 then, he lists stupidity as one in another book - 22/03/2013 07:35:13 PM 676 Views
That's why we NEED to reform prisoners - 22/03/2013 10:33:08 PM 611 Views
It is probably an option we should work harder to develop - 23/03/2013 12:38:33 AM 665 Views
Out of curiosity. Is anyone against background checks at gun shows, and if so, why? *NM* - 21/03/2013 09:38:59 AM 334 Views
Not in principle but somewhat in practice - 21/03/2013 11:25:25 AM 782 Views
For what its worth.... - 21/03/2013 03:13:44 PM 628 Views
Personally, I am worried about criminals with guns. BUT... - 22/03/2013 03:44:47 PM 919 Views
What you are not factoring into your though process is that most criminals feels the same way. - 24/03/2013 12:56:04 PM 929 Views
I realize that can be the case. But... - 25/03/2013 03:32:59 PM 842 Views
Twice I was almost robbed, and my parents were robbed several times. - 26/03/2013 01:35:11 PM 546 Views

Reply to Message