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I think you've actually managed to widen our gap Isaac Send a noteboard - 23/03/2013 03:53:55 PM

View original postthe vast majority of mass shootings are stopped by "the bad guy" taking himself out. but i'm sure the people who stopped jared loughner, james holmes, and other shooters who were captured alive would tell you that they were able to stop a shooter without having to shoot back. there is also the case in NYC where cops shot at a suspect and ended up hitting civilian bystanders more often than the suspect himself. thankfully none of them died, but i find the situation proof positive that no matter how well trained you are to operate a gun, bad things can happen in a tense moment. i find it irresponsible to claim "the only thing" to stop shootings are "good guys with guns" because of this.

I regard that entire above paragraph as absolute irrational delusion on your part, bordering on insane. And that's not passionate hyperbole, I literally had to reread it several times thinking I'd misread what you said. You have literally just said that cops do not benefit from having guns even when their opposition has them.


View original post* mandatory training before purchasing a gun.

No, never, voluntary training made readily available and actively encouraged, yes, mandatory to buy a gun, never.

And of course it isn't necessary, the left's zealous need to win makes them ignore alternatives... offer safety training courses that give the basic for free, give people a photo ID 'passed' certificate, and tell gun shops that if they choose to do so they may receive a $10,000 tax credit for selling only to people who have those cards but are subject to a major fine or jail time if they are caught selling to those without cards if they've taken the tax credit, let the card act as a discount card on gun/ammo purchases good for half the normal sales tax. All voluntary, equally effective, probably more so.


View original post* background checks on all purchases, no exceptions -- we have a criminal element in society which, according to the state they reside in, may not have access to firearms. in addition, we need to keep guns out of the hands of people who may pose a danger to themselves and/or others. of course this system isn't perfect, but it does stop enough people from owning guns who probably should not that it's worth the effort -- again, IMHO. the State has a vested interest in keeping the public safe, and this is one of those areas where i believe it is the State's best interest to implement.

As mentioned, that is one where I need to see the specifics, the specific language of the proposed law.


View original post* no limitations on collecting of data from gun violence -- we discussed this one before but i wanted to include it here for completeness.

I've expressed my concerns on the matter.


View original post* enforce the laws already in existence -- i would add a sub category to this: no amendments/riders/new laws which limit the ability of law enforcement to do their jobs effectively when it comes to guns. violent offenders should have their weapons taken away. the recent standoff in alabama last month is a perfect example of the kind of person who should not be allowed to own guns. i am all for due process, so i know this is ultimately a matter for courts to decide. but i think we can both agree there are some people who just should not possess guns of any kind.

A 'violent offender' can rapidly turn into someone who punched someone else in a bar.


View original post* waiting period of at least 1 week, up to 1 month, after purchase -- the one week waiting period has not deterred people from owning a gun, especially considering the record numbers of guns being sold recently. i would like to see the waiting period extended, as i believe only the people who are willing to be serious about their responsibility of carrying instant death in their hands should be unswayed by the wait. in canada it takes 21-45 days from purchase before you are allowed to pick up your weapon and they seem to have much fewer fatalities than we do. i won't say the waiting period is responsible for that, but it does mean that only the most serious of gun owners are going to buy guns, knowing they have to be patient to get what they want.

A waiting period of exactly the length of time necessary to check if X is banned form owning a gun. This should take all of 10 seconds if the government simply kept a list of who was explicitly not allowed to own a gun. Your one month suggestion is beyond unacceptable, that is clearly meant to discourage legal gun purchases. Once again demonstrating you don't approve of legal gun purchases, for all that you claim to. I do not acknowledge 'a cooling off period' for a legal purchaser as even vaguely acceptable, except by the seller, who like any other item should have the right to decline a sale to anyone they don't feel comfortable selling to.


View original post* call out public figures who say irresponsible things about owning guns -- this goes with what i said about the NRA. too often the NRA makes a statement, and too often too many people nod their heads and say "yes, of course" rather than "um, don't you think you should tone it down a bit?" i would put ted nugent in this category as well, because i don't think making threats against the president and other public figures is something that should be encouraged by the pro-gun crowd. being silent every time these people say something irresponsible is tacit approval for what is spoken. as it is, i feel like we are on the verge of a minor uprising from a subset of gun owners due to this loose talk and the way it plays to the lowest common denominator in this country. i would prefer that rational minds come to the table to have an actual discussion on the issue rather than this kind of, yes, dystopian vision from people whose livelihood depends on keeping guns in circulation.

You want me to agree to denounce people I approve of? You really are delusional on this subject. Tell you what, I'll accuse the NRA of letting their passionate make them prone to rudeness and hyperbole if you'll denounce the democrats habit of claiming to be the party of science while turning environmentalism into a religion and sheltering anti-science sorts opposed to vaccines, GMO, etc.


View original posti am going to leave it at that, because i have too much else to do to keep at it, but i am hoping we can come to this understanding of each other's positions, even if we necessarily disagree with the implementation.

You have not clarified it well at all, my current impression is you're reluctant to speak in an anti-gun fashion and also are on the fence about it in your own head, slightly pro-gun and wanting them got ridden of simultaneously.

The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein

King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
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US Senate Democrats - already cave-in on the gun control bill - 19/03/2013 10:44:55 PM 1319 Views
right wingers are always point out there is no point legislating cosmetics - 19/03/2013 11:52:28 PM 734 Views
Late Term Abortion, Terry Schavio? *NM* - 19/03/2013 11:57:25 PM 369 Views
You know, what you are hoping for will not make any difference whatsoever..... - 20/03/2013 01:07:58 AM 584 Views
"if at first you don't succeed..... fuck it...." - 20/03/2013 04:10:47 AM 607 Views
I can agree with some of what you stated, though I prefer "logical" to "right winger" - 20/03/2013 01:56:34 AM 638 Views
you are correct. i forget sometimes that there **is** some common ground here.... - 20/03/2013 04:19:13 AM 563 Views
There'd be more common ground if anything were ever offered in exchange for concessions - 20/03/2013 02:20:26 PM 602 Views
Ben Franklin said it best... - 20/03/2013 04:14:45 PM 601 Views
interesting how that quote always applies to so many things, isn't it? - 20/03/2013 05:14:30 PM 563 Views
Absolutely - 21/03/2013 12:20:45 AM 639 Views
if there have to be concessions, what do you recommend? - 20/03/2013 05:10:53 PM 668 Views
That would depend, something of equal value - 20/03/2013 09:13:23 PM 562 Views
when very little is being given up, how do we determine equal value? - 20/03/2013 10:31:59 PM 836 Views
Outside of legislature people do it all the time, its called negotiation and bargaining - 21/03/2013 10:53:22 AM 589 Views
Re: Outside of legislature people do it all the time, its called negotiation and bargaining - 21/03/2013 07:16:57 PM 639 Views
Re: Outside of legislature people do it all the time, its called negotiation and bargaining - 21/03/2013 08:53:20 PM 730 Views
some answers - 21/03/2013 10:04:45 PM 964 Views
Re: some answers - 21/03/2013 11:33:21 PM 733 Views
Re: the NRA - 22/03/2013 07:44:06 PM 581 Views
This is a matter of POV bias - 22/03/2013 09:04:25 PM 524 Views
we will have to agree to disagree then - 22/03/2013 10:12:02 PM 569 Views
I already knew we disagreed, that's why I suggested bargaining - 22/03/2013 11:11:04 PM 548 Views
i am merely taking the NRA at their word(s) - 23/03/2013 12:13:18 AM 527 Views
Re: i am merely taking the NRA at their word(s) - 23/03/2013 02:04:39 AM 778 Views
i am not trying to sway, just come to an understanding - 23/03/2013 03:03:14 PM 744 Views
I think you've actually managed to widen our gap - 23/03/2013 03:53:55 PM 758 Views
I can see the argument for limiting magazine capapcity but it would be hard to enforce - 20/03/2013 05:11:51 PM 568 Views
It would be a stupid meaningless "feel good" law as changing magazines takes almost no time. *NM* - 21/03/2013 01:05:34 PM 315 Views
I can't argue that - 21/03/2013 06:14:09 PM 587 Views
canada's magazine restrictions are credited with reducing fatalities in a mass shooting - 21/03/2013 07:22:45 PM 651 Views
what is high capacity? - 21/03/2013 11:09:09 PM 546 Views
according to the law, whatever is larger than the legal limit - 21/03/2013 11:31:08 PM 575 Views
There is no gun control, only gun *centralization* - 20/03/2013 05:32:59 PM 620 Views
Regarding guns sold which are used in crimes - 20/03/2013 10:41:21 PM 558 Views
Your specified legal requirements already exist. *NM* - 21/03/2013 02:05:12 AM 311 Views
So what other stipulations would you put into effect? *NM* - 21/03/2013 02:42:53 AM 299 Views
none- I'd simply actually punish criminals instead of trying to "reform" them. *NM* - 21/03/2013 01:13:29 PM 327 Views
Criminals need to be punished AND reformed for their inevitable release back into society *NM* - 21/03/2013 11:58:20 PM 297 Views
I've always been rather partial to the criminal justice system in Heinlein's Starship Troopers novel - 22/03/2013 02:42:09 AM 670 Views
Yeah you're right. Let's just kill everybody who commits a crime - 22/03/2013 02:46:49 AM 582 Views
*NM* - 22/03/2013 10:55:36 AM 322 Views
That's not in Starship Troopers - 22/03/2013 12:51:44 PM 586 Views
Yeah, there was a small number of capital offenses (13 I think), most not specified. - 22/03/2013 05:27:11 PM 563 Views
14 then, he lists stupidity as one in another book - 22/03/2013 07:35:13 PM 609 Views
That's why we NEED to reform prisoners - 22/03/2013 10:33:08 PM 546 Views
It is probably an option we should work harder to develop - 23/03/2013 12:38:33 AM 603 Views
Out of curiosity. Is anyone against background checks at gun shows, and if so, why? *NM* - 21/03/2013 09:38:59 AM 305 Views
Not in principle but somewhat in practice - 21/03/2013 11:25:25 AM 706 Views
For what its worth.... - 21/03/2013 03:13:44 PM 551 Views
Personally, I am worried about criminals with guns. BUT... - 22/03/2013 03:44:47 PM 844 Views
What you are not factoring into your though process is that most criminals feels the same way. - 24/03/2013 12:56:04 PM 859 Views
I realize that can be the case. But... - 25/03/2013 03:32:59 PM 752 Views
Twice I was almost robbed, and my parents were robbed several times. - 26/03/2013 01:35:11 PM 470 Views

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