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We evidently disagree on what constitutes a Ponzi scheme. Joel Send a noteboard - 11/03/2013 09:56:27 PM

View original postI don't consider it a Ponzi scheme, I think it currently relies on unsustainable methods and that many who resist fixing it either have the blind resistance of someone being fooled in a Ponzi scheme or the malicious self-centered attitude of the one who set it up. I doubt there are many of the latter. This just reflects my general disagreement with most people, left or right or mod, that the opposition has a disproportionate number of scumbags.

No, my attitude on SS, beyond my ideological objections to the current form and my pragmatic objections to its administration, is simply that it is unsustainable as it is in conjunction how we are. That lack of stability relates to the payments at their current level exceeding what the average individual's contribution has actually produced, this is the nature of a Pyramid Scheme, I just don't believe it qualifies as fraud since fraud requires a person to know they are saying something false for the purpose of deceiving someone to their harm and your benefit, and I don't think most people or politicians who favor SS would qualify. I happen to think Islam is not a true religion, nor Buddhisms, nor Catholicism, nor Wicca, etc, that hardly makes them fraud, just not true in my eyes. However, unlike religion or a lack thereof in civilized society, I can't ignore that it is wrong if not maliciously or fraudulently so because nobody makes me attend their temple but they do make me pay SS.

That I may differ with the others about the motives of the opposition's supporters really has jack to do with my view as to the actual flaws in SS, as I've said, and their remarks seem to support, we are of like mind.


If it is solely a matter of restructuring benefits to less than or equal to contributions we do not have a Ponzi scheme; one can rob Peter to pay Paul so long as there are always more Peters than Pauls, and steady population growth ensures that for the foreseeable future. The core problem with Ponzis is not the size of return but that they 1) require ever more investors yet 2) promise returns (size does not matter) so quickly the investor pool is static. Ponzis run out of new investors, and quickly; social security insurance is all but assured there will always be several times as many people working as >65, disabled and/or the surviving dependent of a worker.

The others remarks are, in summary, that SS was always unsustainable on any basis, because, as all Ponzis, beneficiaries must eventually exceed contributors. You say you disagree with their statement yet are in like mind with them, which is a logical contradiction.

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Can You Name the Largest US Program to ANNUALLY Collect More Than It Spent for 75 Straight Years? - 28/02/2013 11:03:18 PM 1315 Views
It's the world's greatest Ponzi scheme, since the government forces us to give money to it. - 01/03/2013 01:05:05 PM 749 Views
Yes, "government forcing people to give money" defines a Ponzi; speeding tickets are Ponzis. - 01/03/2013 03:53:02 PM 877 Views
Good lord my friend..... - 02/03/2013 04:19:35 AM 789 Views
I will just link what Isaac said; maybe then you will pay attention to it. - 02/03/2013 04:56:34 AM 828 Views
I really think you terribly misread what I said *NM* - 02/03/2013 06:59:56 AM 433 Views
Yes he did. He has very poor reading comprehension skills. *NM* - 03/03/2013 01:07:59 AM 460 Views
I really do not think I did. - 04/03/2013 01:43:02 AM 867 Views
I'm pretty confident you have - 04/03/2013 11:49:19 AM 853 Views
We evidently disagree on what constitutes a Ponzi scheme. - 11/03/2013 09:56:27 PM 778 Views
No, I agree with a clear definiton, you seem not to want to absorb that - 11/03/2013 10:24:47 PM 925 Views
It is neither an investment nor fraudulent. - 12/03/2013 02:34:09 AM 992 Views
Okay, that's a really weird or naive standard to judge SS by - 01/03/2013 05:25:11 PM 799 Views
Great; will you put that on a postcard to Cannoli, A2K, Rick Perry and the rest of your party? - 01/03/2013 07:39:44 PM 822 Views
Your attacks on republican ideals would have more credit if you understood them - 02/03/2013 04:27:34 AM 809 Views
aH yes the great liberal investmetn/retirement plan that offers me a NEGATIGVE rate of return... - 02/03/2013 11:51:50 AM 724 Views
Do you sincerely believe people earning $14,560/year can afford investing 4% of it? - 04/03/2013 12:53:30 AM 884 Views
*sigh* - 04/03/2013 03:43:08 AM 717 Views
I tried it with compound interest; $44.80/month at 4% for 50 years still does not get to $1.25 mill. - 04/03/2013 04:24:51 AM 797 Views
Here are some clues. - 04/03/2013 04:37:39 AM 662 Views
It is math, not the Riddle of the Sphinx: EIther it adds up or does not. - 04/03/2013 05:02:39 AM 814 Views
Math is simple - Either you know how to calculate it or you don't - 04/03/2013 11:55:24 AM 896 Views
Indeed. - 11/03/2013 09:53:59 PM 798 Views
Re: Indeed. - 13/03/2013 05:00:10 PM 982 Views
SS is supposed to supplement a proper pension, not provide your sole income after retirement - 05/03/2013 03:53:03 AM 677 Views
Did you bother to actually read anything? - 05/03/2013 02:32:16 PM 747 Views
do *YOU* know what "living in poverty" means? - 05/03/2013 05:49:14 PM 810 Views
Re: do *YOU* know what "living in poverty" means? --- yeah, I've BEEN there. - 05/03/2013 08:01:33 PM 786 Views
how about respond to a post with logic and civility instead of being a troll for once? - 05/03/2013 11:03:00 PM 872 Views
All I have used is civility and logic, or least as much civility as was warrented. - 06/03/2013 04:28:04 AM 822 Views
yeah, it's my fault for stooping to your level.... - 08/03/2013 07:22:24 PM 860 Views
Re: yeah, it's my fault for stooping to your level.... - 10/03/2013 01:42:26 PM 733 Views
i'm not going to keep going in circles so i will finish with this.... - 11/03/2013 10:08:53 PM 1080 Views
No loss. - 13/03/2013 04:37:41 PM 674 Views
"Rah! Rah! Rah!" Can we please cut out all this blather and bile? - 05/03/2013 11:53:41 PM 751 Views
spoken like a true enemy of the state! - 06/03/2013 12:54:38 AM 719 Views
Re: spoken like a true enemy of the state! - 08/03/2013 03:04:37 PM 778 Views
I was not trolling, but clarifying. - 11/03/2013 09:53:48 PM 800 Views

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