It is math, not the Riddle of the Sphinx: EIther it adds up or does not.
Joel Send a noteboard - 04/03/2013 05:02:39 AM
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There are 52 weeks in a year (composed of 12 months), not 4 weeks a month .
There are 52 weeks in a year (composed of 12 months), not 4 weeks a month .
True, but if you have a 50 year investment that compounds interest weekly you should call the Fed; they need to have the Treasury print (a LOT) more money.
View original post4% is the amount of the monthly pay that is invested, not the compound interest rate (though 4% is still better than the ROI given by Social Security).
Right, I had to guess the interest rate since you did (and still have) not state(d) it, so I used the same 4%. As good as any number if I must just pluck one from the air. Since you stated the return would be ~$1,253,000 though I assume you have at least a ballpark figure in mind, apparently somewhere between 11% and 12% annually. No, SS cannot beat that, but gambling anything that does will be there in 50 years is rolling some pretty big dice.
View original postAs for your "nobody making $7 and hour can afford to invest 4% of their money, well that is just plain ignorant. Uncle Sam is ALREADY taking 7.5%, my example uses only a little over HALF what the Fed is taking out of our hypothetical person's pocket right now. We are ignoring of course the 7.5 payed by your employer on top of your salary, that theoretically could be given to you instead.
This is a pure numbers exercise to illustrate what a lousy return Social Security gives in comparison to a real investment.
Already covered that: They are paying for necessary insurance (and if they earn $14,500/year for their entire career it is VERY necessary,) and, though I have not checked, I am pretty sure they will get every penny of it back as a refund.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
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Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
This message last edited by Joel on 04/03/2013 at 05:10:24 AM
Can You Name the Largest US Program to ANNUALLY Collect More Than It Spent for 75 Straight Years?
- 28/02/2013 11:03:18 PM
1301 Views
Medicare? *NM*
- 28/02/2013 11:38:22 PM
521 Views
No, Medicare has only been around about half as long.
- 28/02/2013 11:56:32 PM
806 Views
Medicare has its own problems, and caused many more. You really do not want to have this debate.
- 03/03/2013 03:03:15 PM
725 Views
No, I do not, because Medicare and torts are invariably scapegoated for all problems with healthcare
- 04/03/2013 12:52:37 AM
791 Views
I can argue with anyone on this (and have) btut first we need to break out that dictionary
- 04/03/2013 04:45:06 AM
714 Views
I am sure you can and have; ability to form arguments does not automatically grant them validity.
- 11/03/2013 09:56:11 PM
780 Views
Like I said, short conversation, once everyone uses the same definitions.
- 13/03/2013 03:28:52 PM
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From the way you're shitting yourself with glee, I'm going to say Social Security.
- 01/03/2013 12:45:50 AM
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Also unlike Ponzis, Social Security was not meant to profit—it just did anyway. For 75 years.
- 01/03/2013 01:55:46 AM
747 Views
It is a "Ponzi" by definition, any argument to the contrary just makes you look ignorant.
- 02/03/2013 12:02:46 PM
817 Views
Wait: An insurer is saying insurance is a Ponzi scheme? 
- 04/03/2013 12:56:30 AM
783 Views
- 04/03/2013 12:56:30 AM
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You are making even lese sense than usual... Quite an acomplishment. *NM*
- 04/03/2013 03:31:39 AM
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Maybe, but my math usually checks, and I never have to explain what I omitted.
- 11/03/2013 09:55:50 PM
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My math ALWAYS "checks" - it isn't personal, you are just making absolutely no sense, *NM*
- 13/03/2013 03:27:11 PM
429 Views
It's the world's greatest Ponzi scheme, since the government forces us to give money to it.
- 01/03/2013 01:05:05 PM
740 Views
Yes, "government forcing people to give money" defines a Ponzi; speeding tickets are Ponzis. 
- 01/03/2013 03:53:02 PM
866 Views
- 01/03/2013 03:53:02 PM
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Good lord my friend.....
- 02/03/2013 04:19:35 AM
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I will just link what Isaac said; maybe then you will pay attention to it.
- 02/03/2013 04:56:34 AM
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I really think you terribly misread what I said *NM*
- 02/03/2013 06:59:56 AM
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I really do not think I did.
- 04/03/2013 01:43:02 AM
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I'm pretty confident you have
- 04/03/2013 11:49:19 AM
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We evidently disagree on what constitutes a Ponzi scheme.
- 11/03/2013 09:56:27 PM
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No, I agree with a clear definiton, you seem not to want to absorb that
- 11/03/2013 10:24:47 PM
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Re: Yes, "government forcing people to give money" defines a Ponzi; speeding tickets are Ponzis.
- 02/03/2013 12:22:34 PM
836 Views
- 02/03/2013 12:22:34 PM
836 Views
Fraud="money contributed is NOT invested for the contributor, but instead redistributed to others"?
- 04/03/2013 12:51:30 AM
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You can try and misrepresent what I have said all you want, you are still wrong.
- 04/03/2013 03:45:24 AM
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Dude, how is QUOTING you misrepresenting you?! And why must I ALWAYS ask that in these threads?
- 11/03/2013 09:56:18 PM
810 Views
- 11/03/2013 09:56:18 PM
810 Views
Okay, that's a really weird or naive standard to judge SS by
- 01/03/2013 05:25:11 PM
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Great; will you put that on a postcard to Cannoli, A2K, Rick Perry and the rest of your party? 
- 01/03/2013 07:39:44 PM
814 Views
- 01/03/2013 07:39:44 PM
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I don't think I'd be telling them anything they don't already know... I mostly agree with them
- 02/03/2013 05:38:56 AM
925 Views
Means testing is flat out WRONG, and the contribution limit is a sticky debate
- 02/03/2013 12:43:09 PM
738 Views
Tell that to him not me, I didn't express an opinion and my implied one obviously doesn't favor it
- 02/03/2013 05:28:14 PM
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I was, I just hit the repy under the wrong post. He was the first to bering the two topics up. *NM*
- 03/03/2013 04:09:34 AM
425 Views
It is insurance against old age poverty, not a longevity lottery.
- 04/03/2013 02:00:24 AM
843 Views
It is not insurance, it is a pension plan, that also contains an overpriced LT disability insurance.
- 04/03/2013 04:00:42 AM
843 Views
Social Security Insurance; says so right on the label.
- 11/03/2013 09:53:33 PM
982 Views
You can call it BedroomWindowVitamins but it does not change what it acutally IS.
- 13/03/2013 04:34:42 PM
762 Views
"Sustainable"=/="profitable;" bankruptcy was not always a given, as your fellows claim..
- 04/03/2013 01:35:04 AM
741 Views
Sustainable often means profitable, they are not universally synonmous but both at once is ideal
- 04/03/2013 12:25:45 PM
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That is the IDEAL, but NOT point: Sustainability needs no profit, yet profit ensures sustainability.
- 11/03/2013 09:56:48 PM
1196 Views
Your attacks on republican ideals would have more credit if you understood them
- 02/03/2013 04:27:34 AM
797 Views
An ironic charge, since their defenses of those ideals typically suffer from the same defect.
- 02/03/2013 04:51:32 AM
774 Views
- 02/03/2013 04:51:32 AM
774 Views
I'm rubber you're glue, whatever you say bounces of me and sticks to you. nyah, nyah, nyah
- 02/03/2013 12:58:10 PM
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"Unsustainable"=/="meeting monthly obligations for 75 YEARS and still having $2.5 trillion left."
- 04/03/2013 01:03:09 AM
840 Views
Please look up the definition of sustainable. Hint: "its worked so far" isn't it.
- 04/03/2013 04:25:19 AM
800 Views
"As it is currently constructed/funded" is one HELL of a qualifier.
- 04/03/2013 04:41:30 AM
861 Views
You just don't get it, or apparently are so in love with your political ideology you won't.
- 04/03/2013 04:58:15 AM
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I believe if you check civilizations record you will find the human population has steadily risen.
- 04/03/2013 05:08:38 AM
780 Views
*sigh*
- 04/03/2013 12:15:22 PM
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Birth RATES have fallen; POPULATION steadily rose in every period except the Black Deaths peak.
- 11/03/2013 09:56:36 PM
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Ironic that you would make my point while arguing against
- 04/03/2013 06:12:29 PM
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?
- 11/03/2013 09:56:59 PM
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you mistate his posistion and then rationalize that you know what he really meant
- 13/03/2013 12:06:44 PM
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aH yes the great liberal investmetn/retirement plan that offers me a NEGATIGVE rate of return...
- 02/03/2013 11:51:50 AM
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Do you sincerely believe people earning $14,560/year can afford investing 4% of it?
- 04/03/2013 12:53:30 AM
875 Views
*sigh*
- 04/03/2013 03:43:08 AM
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I tried it with compound interest; $44.80/month at 4% for 50 years still does not get to $1.25 mill.
- 04/03/2013 04:24:51 AM
788 Views
Here are some clues.
- 04/03/2013 04:37:39 AM
649 Views
It is math, not the Riddle of the Sphinx: EIther it adds up or does not.
- 04/03/2013 05:02:39 AM
802 Views
Math is simple - Either you know how to calculate it or you don't
- 04/03/2013 11:55:24 AM
879 Views
SS is supposed to supplement a proper pension, not provide your sole income after retirement
- 05/03/2013 03:53:03 AM
667 Views
Did you bother to actually read anything?
- 05/03/2013 02:32:16 PM
735 Views
do *YOU* know what "living in poverty" means?
- 05/03/2013 05:49:14 PM
802 Views
Re: do *YOU* know what "living in poverty" means? --- yeah, I've BEEN there.
- 05/03/2013 08:01:33 PM
776 Views
how about respond to a post with logic and civility instead of being a troll for once?
- 05/03/2013 11:03:00 PM
860 Views
All I have used is civility and logic, or least as much civility as was warrented.
- 06/03/2013 04:28:04 AM
808 Views
yeah, it's my fault for stooping to your level....
- 08/03/2013 07:22:24 PM
851 Views
Re: yeah, it's my fault for stooping to your level....
- 10/03/2013 01:42:26 PM
721 Views
i'm not going to keep going in circles so i will finish with this....
- 11/03/2013 10:08:53 PM
1068 Views
"Rah! Rah! Rah!" Can we please cut out all this blather and bile?
- 05/03/2013 11:53:41 PM
737 Views