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It is math, not the Riddle of the Sphinx: EIther it adds up or does not. Joel Send a noteboard - 04/03/2013 05:02:39 AM

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There are 52 weeks in a year (composed of 12 months), not 4 weeks a month .

True, but if you have a 50 year investment that compounds interest weekly you should call the Fed; they need to have the Treasury print (a LOT) more money.
View original post4% is the amount of the monthly pay that is invested, not the compound interest rate (though 4% is still better than the ROI given by Social Security).

Right, I had to guess the interest rate since you did (and still have) not state(d) it, so I used the same 4%. As good as any number if I must just pluck one from the air. Since you stated the return would be ~$1,253,000 though I assume you have at least a ballpark figure in mind, apparently somewhere between 11% and 12% annually. No, SS cannot beat that, but gambling anything that does will be there in 50 years is rolling some pretty big dice.
View original postAs for your "nobody making $7 and hour can afford to invest 4% of their money, well that is just plain ignorant. Uncle Sam is ALREADY taking 7.5%, my example uses only a little over HALF what the Fed is taking out of our hypothetical person's pocket right now. We are ignoring of course the 7.5 payed by your employer on top of your salary, that theoretically could be given to you instead.

This is a pure numbers exercise to illustrate what a lousy return Social Security gives in comparison to a real investment.


Already covered that: They are paying for necessary insurance (and if they earn $14,500/year for their entire career it is VERY necessary,) and, though I have not checked, I am pretty sure they will get every penny of it back as a refund.
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This message last edited by Joel on 04/03/2013 at 05:10:24 AM
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Can You Name the Largest US Program to ANNUALLY Collect More Than It Spent for 75 Straight Years? Joel - 28/02/2013 11:03:18 PM 1379 Views
Medicare? *NM* Aisha - 28/02/2013 11:38:22 PM 554 Views
No, Medicare has only been around about half as long. Joel - 28/02/2013 11:56:32 PM 871 Views
Medicare has its own problems, and caused many more. You really do not want to have this debate. HyogaRott - 03/03/2013 03:03:15 PM 803 Views
No, I do not, because Medicare and torts are invariably scapegoated for all problems with healthcare Joel - 04/03/2013 12:52:37 AM 861 Views
I can argue with anyone on this (and have) btut first we need to break out that dictionary HyogaRott - 04/03/2013 04:45:06 AM 780 Views
I am sure you can and have; ability to form arguments does not automatically grant them validity. Joel - 11/03/2013 09:56:11 PM 849 Views
Like I said, short conversation, once everyone uses the same definitions. HyogaRott - 13/03/2013 03:28:52 PM 855 Views
From the way you're shitting yourself with glee, I'm going to say Social Security. Cannoli - 01/03/2013 12:45:50 AM 976 Views
Hot dog, we have a wiener! Joel - 01/03/2013 01:40:18 AM 911 Views
Also unlike Ponzis, Social Security was not meant to profit—it just did anyway. For 75 years. Joel - 01/03/2013 01:55:46 AM 824 Views
It is a "Ponzi" by definition, any argument to the contrary just makes you look ignorant. HyogaRott - 02/03/2013 12:02:46 PM 892 Views
Wait: An insurer is saying insurance is a Ponzi scheme? Joel - 04/03/2013 12:56:30 AM 852 Views
You are making even lese sense than usual... Quite an acomplishment. *NM* HyogaRott - 04/03/2013 03:31:39 AM 517 Views
Maybe, but my math usually checks, and I never have to explain what I omitted. Joel - 11/03/2013 09:55:50 PM 943 Views
My math ALWAYS "checks" - it isn't personal, you are just making absolutely no sense, *NM* HyogaRott - 13/03/2013 03:27:11 PM 458 Views
It's the world's greatest Ponzi scheme, since the government forces us to give money to it. Anonymous2000 - 01/03/2013 01:05:05 PM 813 Views
Yes, "government forcing people to give money" defines a Ponzi; speeding tickets are Ponzis. Joel - 01/03/2013 03:53:02 PM 906 Views
Good lord my friend..... Anonymous2000 - 02/03/2013 04:19:35 AM 848 Views
I will just link what Isaac said; maybe then you will pay attention to it. Joel - 02/03/2013 04:56:34 AM 894 Views
I really think you terribly misread what I said *NM* Isaac - 02/03/2013 06:59:56 AM 463 Views
Yes he did. He has very poor reading comprehension skills. *NM* Anonymous2000 - 03/03/2013 01:07:59 AM 484 Views
I really do not think I did. Joel - 04/03/2013 01:43:02 AM 929 Views
I'm pretty confident you have Isaac - 04/03/2013 11:49:19 AM 911 Views
We evidently disagree on what constitutes a Ponzi scheme. Joel - 11/03/2013 09:56:27 PM 840 Views
No, I agree with a clear definiton, you seem not to want to absorb that Isaac - 11/03/2013 10:24:47 PM 1000 Views
It is neither an investment nor fraudulent. Joel - 12/03/2013 02:34:09 AM 1061 Views
Re: Yes, "government forcing people to give money" defines a Ponzi; speeding tickets are Ponzis. HyogaRott - 02/03/2013 12:22:34 PM 906 Views
Fraud="money contributed is NOT invested for the contributor, but instead redistributed to others"? Joel - 04/03/2013 12:51:30 AM 844 Views
You can try and misrepresent what I have said all you want, you are still wrong. HyogaRott - 04/03/2013 03:45:24 AM 913 Views
Dude, how is QUOTING you misrepresenting you?! And why must I ALWAYS ask that in these threads? Joel - 11/03/2013 09:56:18 PM 886 Views
Well, can you get more wrong? HyogaRott - 13/03/2013 03:45:08 PM 800 Views
Okay, that's a really weird or naive standard to judge SS by Isaac - 01/03/2013 05:25:11 PM 866 Views
Great; will you put that on a postcard to Cannoli, A2K, Rick Perry and the rest of your party? Joel - 01/03/2013 07:39:44 PM 884 Views
I don't think I'd be telling them anything they don't already know... I mostly agree with them Isaac - 02/03/2013 05:38:56 AM 1010 Views
Means testing is flat out WRONG, and the contribution limit is a sticky debate HyogaRott - 02/03/2013 12:43:09 PM 816 Views
Tell that to him not me, I didn't express an opinion and my implied one obviously doesn't favor it Isaac - 02/03/2013 05:28:14 PM 933 Views
I was, I just hit the repy under the wrong post. He was the first to bering the two topics up. *NM* HyogaRott - 03/03/2013 04:09:34 AM 458 Views
It is insurance against old age poverty, not a longevity lottery. Joel - 04/03/2013 02:00:24 AM 918 Views
It is not insurance, it is a pension plan, that also contains an overpriced LT disability insurance. HyogaRott - 04/03/2013 04:00:42 AM 920 Views
Social Security Insurance; says so right on the label. Joel - 11/03/2013 09:53:33 PM 1057 Views
You can call it BedroomWindowVitamins but it does not change what it acutally IS. HyogaRott - 13/03/2013 04:34:42 PM 831 Views
"Sustainable"=/="profitable;" bankruptcy was not always a given, as your fellows claim.. Joel - 04/03/2013 01:35:04 AM 823 Views
Sustainable often means profitable, they are not universally synonmous but both at once is ideal Isaac - 04/03/2013 12:25:45 PM 807 Views
That is the IDEAL, but NOT point: Sustainability needs no profit, yet profit ensures sustainability. Joel - 11/03/2013 09:56:48 PM 1281 Views
Your attacks on republican ideals would have more credit if you understood them random thoughts - 02/03/2013 04:27:34 AM 873 Views
An ironic charge, since their defenses of those ideals typically suffer from the same defect. Joel - 02/03/2013 04:51:32 AM 853 Views
I'm rubber you're glue, whatever you say bounces of me and sticks to you. nyah, nyah, nyah HyogaRott - 02/03/2013 12:58:10 PM 791 Views
"Unsustainable"=/="meeting monthly obligations for 75 YEARS and still having $2.5 trillion left." Joel - 04/03/2013 01:03:09 AM 904 Views
Please look up the definition of sustainable. Hint: "its worked so far" isn't it. HyogaRott - 04/03/2013 04:25:19 AM 877 Views
"As it is currently constructed/funded" is one HELL of a qualifier. Joel - 04/03/2013 04:41:30 AM 940 Views
You just don't get it, or apparently are so in love with your political ideology you won't. HyogaRott - 04/03/2013 04:58:15 AM 735 Views
I believe if you check civilizations record you will find the human population has steadily risen. Joel - 04/03/2013 05:08:38 AM 814 Views
*sigh* HyogaRott - 04/03/2013 12:15:22 PM 811 Views
Birth RATES have fallen; POPULATION steadily rose in every period except the Black Deaths peak. Joel - 11/03/2013 09:56:36 PM 1094 Views
Re: Declining birth rates are the key HyogaRott - 13/03/2013 04:47:41 PM 909 Views
Ironic that you would make my point while arguing against random thoughts - 04/03/2013 06:12:29 PM 752 Views
? Joel - 11/03/2013 09:56:59 PM 918 Views
you mistate his posistion and then rationalize that you know what he really meant random thoughts - 13/03/2013 12:06:44 PM 767 Views
aH yes the great liberal investmetn/retirement plan that offers me a NEGATIGVE rate of return... HyogaRott - 02/03/2013 11:51:50 AM 787 Views
Do you sincerely believe people earning $14,560/year can afford investing 4% of it? Joel - 04/03/2013 12:53:30 AM 948 Views
*sigh* HyogaRott - 04/03/2013 03:43:08 AM 784 Views
I tried it with compound interest; $44.80/month at 4% for 50 years still does not get to $1.25 mill. Joel - 04/03/2013 04:24:51 AM 856 Views
Here are some clues. HyogaRott - 04/03/2013 04:37:39 AM 731 Views
It is math, not the Riddle of the Sphinx: EIther it adds up or does not. Joel - 04/03/2013 05:02:39 AM 871 Views
Math is simple - Either you know how to calculate it or you don't HyogaRott - 04/03/2013 11:55:24 AM 957 Views
Indeed. Joel - 11/03/2013 09:53:59 PM 873 Views
Re: Indeed. HyogaRott - 13/03/2013 05:00:10 PM 1019 Views
SS is supposed to supplement a proper pension, not provide your sole income after retirement moondog - 05/03/2013 03:53:03 AM 744 Views
Did you bother to actually read anything? HyogaRott - 05/03/2013 02:32:16 PM 808 Views
do *YOU* know what "living in poverty" means? moondog - 05/03/2013 05:49:14 PM 873 Views
Re: do *YOU* know what "living in poverty" means? --- yeah, I've BEEN there. HyogaRott - 05/03/2013 08:01:33 PM 843 Views
how about respond to a post with logic and civility instead of being a troll for once? moondog - 05/03/2013 11:03:00 PM 953 Views
All I have used is civility and logic, or least as much civility as was warrented. HyogaRott - 06/03/2013 04:28:04 AM 888 Views
yeah, it's my fault for stooping to your level.... moondog - 08/03/2013 07:22:24 PM 924 Views
Re: yeah, it's my fault for stooping to your level.... HyogaRott - 10/03/2013 01:42:26 PM 805 Views
i'm not going to keep going in circles so i will finish with this.... moondog - 11/03/2013 10:08:53 PM 1111 Views
No loss. HyogaRott - 13/03/2013 04:37:41 PM 741 Views
"Rah! Rah! Rah!" Can we please cut out all this blather and bile? Stephen - 05/03/2013 11:53:41 PM 815 Views
spoken like a true enemy of the state! moondog - 06/03/2013 12:54:38 AM 783 Views
Re: spoken like a true enemy of the state! Stephen - 08/03/2013 03:04:37 PM 834 Views
I was not trolling, but clarifying. Joel - 11/03/2013 09:53:48 PM 872 Views
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