It is not insurance, it is a pension plan, that also contains an overpriced LT disability insurance.
HyogaRott Send a noteboard - 04/03/2013 04:00:42 AM
View original postDo you give people money back each time they go a year without needing medical care? But you are concerned about compulsory participation, I understand; do you return malpractice premiums to every doctor who retires without filing a claim? No? Have you consulted your lawyer/priest about that? 
investment is to insurance like ice is to iguana, they both start with the same letter. Insurance is the transference of a monetary risk to another entity for a fee, called a premium. That being said, yes there are health insurance (and other types) that offer a premium refund mechanism, however they usually cost more so are a bad purchase (thought the MSA is a very good program). If you really want to be educated on what exactly insurance is and how it functions (and why you should therefore never purchase and extended warranty) we can have that conversation, though this really isn't the thread for it. Frankly we would need to begin by throwing out everything you think you know.
View original postQuite frankly, no, you can NOT be trusted to take care of yourself, because until SS >50% of Americans >65 lived in poverty. Today it is ~10%.
All hail the great nanny state...
View original post
How is the payout capped? Like, when people hit 95 they say, "sorry, that is all the money you contributed; no more benefits for you." No, people who live to 120 keep getting benefits each month of every year, however much they paid. Since US life expectancy is 13 years higher than when SS was created it is not only reasonable but wise to proportionally increase the witholding limit. Again, there is more money in the trust fund now than six months ago, because most people have not yet hit this years witholding limit, and no one has been stupid enough to say, "hey, SS is going broke; why not declare yet another witholding 'holiday' and pretend the people enjoying it will not have to pay for it when they are 70?" Just removing the witholding limit would fund the supposed "unsustainable Ponzi scheme" indefinitely.
How is the payout capped? Like, when people hit 95 they say, "sorry, that is all the money you contributed; no more benefits for you." No, people who live to 120 keep getting benefits each month of every year, however much they paid. Since US life expectancy is 13 years higher than when SS was created it is not only reasonable but wise to proportionally increase the witholding limit. Again, there is more money in the trust fund now than six months ago, because most people have not yet hit this years witholding limit, and no one has been stupid enough to say, "hey, SS is going broke; why not declare yet another witholding 'holiday' and pretend the people enjoying it will not have to pay for it when they are 70?" Just removing the witholding limit would fund the supposed "unsustainable Ponzi scheme" indefinitely.
Monthly payout is capped, just like annual contribution is. No, removing the annual cap would not make SS permanently solvent. SS risks insolvency because the number of workers contributing, versus the number of individual receiving benefits has fallen below 2:1 (it started at 7:1). This is the inescapable problem that all Ponzi's collapse into.
Can You Name the Largest US Program to ANNUALLY Collect More Than It Spent for 75 Straight Years?
- 28/02/2013 11:03:18 PM
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Medicare? *NM*
- 28/02/2013 11:38:22 PM
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No, Medicare has only been around about half as long.
- 28/02/2013 11:56:32 PM
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Medicare has its own problems, and caused many more. You really do not want to have this debate.
- 03/03/2013 03:03:15 PM
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No, I do not, because Medicare and torts are invariably scapegoated for all problems with healthcare
- 04/03/2013 12:52:37 AM
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I can argue with anyone on this (and have) btut first we need to break out that dictionary
- 04/03/2013 04:45:06 AM
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I am sure you can and have; ability to form arguments does not automatically grant them validity.
- 11/03/2013 09:56:11 PM
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Like I said, short conversation, once everyone uses the same definitions.
- 13/03/2013 03:28:52 PM
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From the way you're shitting yourself with glee, I'm going to say Social Security.
- 01/03/2013 12:45:50 AM
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Also unlike Ponzis, Social Security was not meant to profit—it just did anyway. For 75 years.
- 01/03/2013 01:55:46 AM
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It is a "Ponzi" by definition, any argument to the contrary just makes you look ignorant.
- 02/03/2013 12:02:46 PM
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Wait: An insurer is saying insurance is a Ponzi scheme? 
- 04/03/2013 12:56:30 AM
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- 04/03/2013 12:56:30 AM
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You are making even lese sense than usual... Quite an acomplishment. *NM*
- 04/03/2013 03:31:39 AM
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Maybe, but my math usually checks, and I never have to explain what I omitted.
- 11/03/2013 09:55:50 PM
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My math ALWAYS "checks" - it isn't personal, you are just making absolutely no sense, *NM*
- 13/03/2013 03:27:11 PM
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It's the world's greatest Ponzi scheme, since the government forces us to give money to it.
- 01/03/2013 01:05:05 PM
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Yes, "government forcing people to give money" defines a Ponzi; speeding tickets are Ponzis. 
- 01/03/2013 03:53:02 PM
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- 01/03/2013 03:53:02 PM
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Good lord my friend.....
- 02/03/2013 04:19:35 AM
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I will just link what Isaac said; maybe then you will pay attention to it.
- 02/03/2013 04:56:34 AM
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I really think you terribly misread what I said *NM*
- 02/03/2013 06:59:56 AM
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I really do not think I did.
- 04/03/2013 01:43:02 AM
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I'm pretty confident you have
- 04/03/2013 11:49:19 AM
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We evidently disagree on what constitutes a Ponzi scheme.
- 11/03/2013 09:56:27 PM
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No, I agree with a clear definiton, you seem not to want to absorb that
- 11/03/2013 10:24:47 PM
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Re: Yes, "government forcing people to give money" defines a Ponzi; speeding tickets are Ponzis.
- 02/03/2013 12:22:34 PM
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- 02/03/2013 12:22:34 PM
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Fraud="money contributed is NOT invested for the contributor, but instead redistributed to others"?
- 04/03/2013 12:51:30 AM
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You can try and misrepresent what I have said all you want, you are still wrong.
- 04/03/2013 03:45:24 AM
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Dude, how is QUOTING you misrepresenting you?! And why must I ALWAYS ask that in these threads?
- 11/03/2013 09:56:18 PM
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- 11/03/2013 09:56:18 PM
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Okay, that's a really weird or naive standard to judge SS by
- 01/03/2013 05:25:11 PM
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Great; will you put that on a postcard to Cannoli, A2K, Rick Perry and the rest of your party?
- 01/03/2013 07:39:44 PM
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- 01/03/2013 07:39:44 PM
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I don't think I'd be telling them anything they don't already know... I mostly agree with them
- 02/03/2013 05:38:56 AM
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Means testing is flat out WRONG, and the contribution limit is a sticky debate
- 02/03/2013 12:43:09 PM
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Tell that to him not me, I didn't express an opinion and my implied one obviously doesn't favor it
- 02/03/2013 05:28:14 PM
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I was, I just hit the repy under the wrong post. He was the first to bering the two topics up. *NM*
- 03/03/2013 04:09:34 AM
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It is insurance against old age poverty, not a longevity lottery.
- 04/03/2013 02:00:24 AM
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It is not insurance, it is a pension plan, that also contains an overpriced LT disability insurance.
- 04/03/2013 04:00:42 AM
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Social Security Insurance; says so right on the label.
- 11/03/2013 09:53:33 PM
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You can call it BedroomWindowVitamins but it does not change what it acutally IS.
- 13/03/2013 04:34:42 PM
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"Sustainable"=/="profitable;" bankruptcy was not always a given, as your fellows claim..
- 04/03/2013 01:35:04 AM
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Sustainable often means profitable, they are not universally synonmous but both at once is ideal
- 04/03/2013 12:25:45 PM
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That is the IDEAL, but NOT point: Sustainability needs no profit, yet profit ensures sustainability.
- 11/03/2013 09:56:48 PM
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Your attacks on republican ideals would have more credit if you understood them
- 02/03/2013 04:27:34 AM
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An ironic charge, since their defenses of those ideals typically suffer from the same defect.
- 02/03/2013 04:51:32 AM
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- 02/03/2013 04:51:32 AM
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I'm rubber you're glue, whatever you say bounces of me and sticks to you. nyah, nyah, nyah
- 02/03/2013 12:58:10 PM
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"Unsustainable"=/="meeting monthly obligations for 75 YEARS and still having $2.5 trillion left."
- 04/03/2013 01:03:09 AM
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Please look up the definition of sustainable. Hint: "its worked so far" isn't it.
- 04/03/2013 04:25:19 AM
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"As it is currently constructed/funded" is one HELL of a qualifier.
- 04/03/2013 04:41:30 AM
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You just don't get it, or apparently are so in love with your political ideology you won't.
- 04/03/2013 04:58:15 AM
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I believe if you check civilizations record you will find the human population has steadily risen.
- 04/03/2013 05:08:38 AM
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*sigh*
- 04/03/2013 12:15:22 PM
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Birth RATES have fallen; POPULATION steadily rose in every period except the Black Deaths peak.
- 11/03/2013 09:56:36 PM
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Ironic that you would make my point while arguing against
- 04/03/2013 06:12:29 PM
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?
- 11/03/2013 09:56:59 PM
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you mistate his posistion and then rationalize that you know what he really meant
- 13/03/2013 12:06:44 PM
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aH yes the great liberal investmetn/retirement plan that offers me a NEGATIGVE rate of return...
- 02/03/2013 11:51:50 AM
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Do you sincerely believe people earning $14,560/year can afford investing 4% of it?
- 04/03/2013 12:53:30 AM
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*sigh*
- 04/03/2013 03:43:08 AM
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I tried it with compound interest; $44.80/month at 4% for 50 years still does not get to $1.25 mill.
- 04/03/2013 04:24:51 AM
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Here are some clues.
- 04/03/2013 04:37:39 AM
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It is math, not the Riddle of the Sphinx: EIther it adds up or does not.
- 04/03/2013 05:02:39 AM
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Math is simple - Either you know how to calculate it or you don't
- 04/03/2013 11:55:24 AM
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SS is supposed to supplement a proper pension, not provide your sole income after retirement
- 05/03/2013 03:53:03 AM
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Did you bother to actually read anything?
- 05/03/2013 02:32:16 PM
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do *YOU* know what "living in poverty" means?
- 05/03/2013 05:49:14 PM
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Re: do *YOU* know what "living in poverty" means? --- yeah, I've BEEN there.
- 05/03/2013 08:01:33 PM
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how about respond to a post with logic and civility instead of being a troll for once?
- 05/03/2013 11:03:00 PM
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All I have used is civility and logic, or least as much civility as was warrented.
- 06/03/2013 04:28:04 AM
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yeah, it's my fault for stooping to your level....
- 08/03/2013 07:22:24 PM
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Re: yeah, it's my fault for stooping to your level....
- 10/03/2013 01:42:26 PM
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i'm not going to keep going in circles so i will finish with this....
- 11/03/2013 10:08:53 PM
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"Rah! Rah! Rah!" Can we please cut out all this blather and bile?
- 05/03/2013 11:53:41 PM
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