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Yes, "government forcing people to give money" defines a Ponzi; speeding tickets are Ponzis. Joel Send a noteboard - 01/03/2013 03:53:02 PM

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Ponzi Scheme:

A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation that pays returns to its investors from their own money or the money paid by subsequent investors, rather than from profit earned by the individual or organization running the operation - as per Wiki

This is the exact definition of SS.


No, because SS is not

1) Fraudulent (or WAS not until St. Ronnie started looting it to pay for tax cuts so large he STILL tripled federal debt) and

2) pays beneficiaries with their employers money as well as their own and that of later investors.

Also, since the time between the first contribution and first return is usually DECADES, SS is virtually assured tens of millions more people paying than drawing. Many die before receiving benefits, and many more are born and enter the workforce. Ponzis fail because they run out of revenue sources once all or most people join, but SS does not, because the number paying in doubles every few decades, and a huge swathe of them do not live long enough to collect.

Seriously, guys, Rick Perrys a moron, but ya'll do not have that "excuse." :[

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This message last edited by Joel on 01/03/2013 at 03:53:18 PM
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Can You Name the Largest US Program to ANNUALLY Collect More Than It Spent for 75 Straight Years? Joel - 28/02/2013 11:03:18 PM 1463 Views
Medicare? *NM* Aisha - 28/02/2013 11:38:22 PM 617 Views
No, Medicare has only been around about half as long. Joel - 28/02/2013 11:56:32 PM 942 Views
Medicare has its own problems, and caused many more. You really do not want to have this debate. HyogaRott - 03/03/2013 03:03:15 PM 875 Views
No, I do not, because Medicare and torts are invariably scapegoated for all problems with healthcare Joel - 04/03/2013 12:52:37 AM 937 Views
I can argue with anyone on this (and have) btut first we need to break out that dictionary HyogaRott - 04/03/2013 04:45:06 AM 856 Views
I am sure you can and have; ability to form arguments does not automatically grant them validity. Joel - 11/03/2013 09:56:11 PM 930 Views
Like I said, short conversation, once everyone uses the same definitions. HyogaRott - 13/03/2013 03:28:52 PM 932 Views
From the way you're shitting yourself with glee, I'm going to say Social Security. Cannoli - 01/03/2013 12:45:50 AM 1054 Views
Hot dog, we have a wiener! Joel - 01/03/2013 01:40:18 AM 1028 Views
Also unlike Ponzis, Social Security was not meant to profit—it just did anyway. For 75 years. Joel - 01/03/2013 01:55:46 AM 897 Views
It is a "Ponzi" by definition, any argument to the contrary just makes you look ignorant. HyogaRott - 02/03/2013 12:02:46 PM 965 Views
Wait: An insurer is saying insurance is a Ponzi scheme? Joel - 04/03/2013 12:56:30 AM 925 Views
You are making even lese sense than usual... Quite an acomplishment. *NM* HyogaRott - 04/03/2013 03:31:39 AM 553 Views
Maybe, but my math usually checks, and I never have to explain what I omitted. Joel - 11/03/2013 09:55:50 PM 1020 Views
My math ALWAYS "checks" - it isn't personal, you are just making absolutely no sense, *NM* HyogaRott - 13/03/2013 03:27:11 PM 492 Views
It's the world's greatest Ponzi scheme, since the government forces us to give money to it. Anonymous2000 - 01/03/2013 01:05:05 PM 880 Views
Yes, "government forcing people to give money" defines a Ponzi; speeding tickets are Ponzis. Joel - 01/03/2013 03:53:02 PM 985 Views
Good lord my friend..... Anonymous2000 - 02/03/2013 04:19:35 AM 919 Views
I will just link what Isaac said; maybe then you will pay attention to it. Joel - 02/03/2013 04:56:34 AM 974 Views
I really think you terribly misread what I said *NM* Isaac - 02/03/2013 06:59:56 AM 499 Views
Yes he did. He has very poor reading comprehension skills. *NM* Anonymous2000 - 03/03/2013 01:07:59 AM 519 Views
I really do not think I did. Joel - 04/03/2013 01:43:02 AM 1009 Views
I'm pretty confident you have Isaac - 04/03/2013 11:49:19 AM 992 Views
We evidently disagree on what constitutes a Ponzi scheme. Joel - 11/03/2013 09:56:27 PM 917 Views
No, I agree with a clear definiton, you seem not to want to absorb that Isaac - 11/03/2013 10:24:47 PM 1094 Views
It is neither an investment nor fraudulent. Joel - 12/03/2013 02:34:09 AM 1150 Views
Re: Yes, "government forcing people to give money" defines a Ponzi; speeding tickets are Ponzis. HyogaRott - 02/03/2013 12:22:34 PM 984 Views
Fraud="money contributed is NOT invested for the contributor, but instead redistributed to others"? Joel - 04/03/2013 12:51:30 AM 925 Views
You can try and misrepresent what I have said all you want, you are still wrong. HyogaRott - 04/03/2013 03:45:24 AM 988 Views
Dude, how is QUOTING you misrepresenting you?! And why must I ALWAYS ask that in these threads? Joel - 11/03/2013 09:56:18 PM 968 Views
Well, can you get more wrong? HyogaRott - 13/03/2013 03:45:08 PM 878 Views
Okay, that's a really weird or naive standard to judge SS by Isaac - 01/03/2013 05:25:11 PM 932 Views
Great; will you put that on a postcard to Cannoli, A2K, Rick Perry and the rest of your party? Joel - 01/03/2013 07:39:44 PM 970 Views
I don't think I'd be telling them anything they don't already know... I mostly agree with them Isaac - 02/03/2013 05:38:56 AM 1100 Views
Means testing is flat out WRONG, and the contribution limit is a sticky debate HyogaRott - 02/03/2013 12:43:09 PM 898 Views
Tell that to him not me, I didn't express an opinion and my implied one obviously doesn't favor it Isaac - 02/03/2013 05:28:14 PM 1001 Views
I was, I just hit the repy under the wrong post. He was the first to bering the two topics up. *NM* HyogaRott - 03/03/2013 04:09:34 AM 490 Views
It is insurance against old age poverty, not a longevity lottery. Joel - 04/03/2013 02:00:24 AM 1006 Views
It is not insurance, it is a pension plan, that also contains an overpriced LT disability insurance. HyogaRott - 04/03/2013 04:00:42 AM 1001 Views
Social Security Insurance; says so right on the label. Joel - 11/03/2013 09:53:33 PM 1135 Views
You can call it BedroomWindowVitamins but it does not change what it acutally IS. HyogaRott - 13/03/2013 04:34:42 PM 903 Views
"Sustainable"=/="profitable;" bankruptcy was not always a given, as your fellows claim.. Joel - 04/03/2013 01:35:04 AM 897 Views
Sustainable often means profitable, they are not universally synonmous but both at once is ideal Isaac - 04/03/2013 12:25:45 PM 893 Views
That is the IDEAL, but NOT point: Sustainability needs no profit, yet profit ensures sustainability. Joel - 11/03/2013 09:56:48 PM 1362 Views
Your attacks on republican ideals would have more credit if you understood them random thoughts - 02/03/2013 04:27:34 AM 951 Views
An ironic charge, since their defenses of those ideals typically suffer from the same defect. Joel - 02/03/2013 04:51:32 AM 922 Views
I'm rubber you're glue, whatever you say bounces of me and sticks to you. nyah, nyah, nyah HyogaRott - 02/03/2013 12:58:10 PM 864 Views
"Unsustainable"=/="meeting monthly obligations for 75 YEARS and still having $2.5 trillion left." Joel - 04/03/2013 01:03:09 AM 993 Views
Please look up the definition of sustainable. Hint: "its worked so far" isn't it. HyogaRott - 04/03/2013 04:25:19 AM 971 Views
"As it is currently constructed/funded" is one HELL of a qualifier. Joel - 04/03/2013 04:41:30 AM 1018 Views
You just don't get it, or apparently are so in love with your political ideology you won't. HyogaRott - 04/03/2013 04:58:15 AM 820 Views
I believe if you check civilizations record you will find the human population has steadily risen. Joel - 04/03/2013 05:08:38 AM 890 Views
*sigh* HyogaRott - 04/03/2013 12:15:22 PM 890 Views
Birth RATES have fallen; POPULATION steadily rose in every period except the Black Deaths peak. Joel - 11/03/2013 09:56:36 PM 1184 Views
Re: Declining birth rates are the key HyogaRott - 13/03/2013 04:47:41 PM 982 Views
Ironic that you would make my point while arguing against random thoughts - 04/03/2013 06:12:29 PM 818 Views
? Joel - 11/03/2013 09:56:59 PM 999 Views
you mistate his posistion and then rationalize that you know what he really meant random thoughts - 13/03/2013 12:06:44 PM 849 Views
aH yes the great liberal investmetn/retirement plan that offers me a NEGATIGVE rate of return... HyogaRott - 02/03/2013 11:51:50 AM 876 Views
Do you sincerely believe people earning $14,560/year can afford investing 4% of it? Joel - 04/03/2013 12:53:30 AM 1042 Views
*sigh* HyogaRott - 04/03/2013 03:43:08 AM 863 Views
I tried it with compound interest; $44.80/month at 4% for 50 years still does not get to $1.25 mill. Joel - 04/03/2013 04:24:51 AM 922 Views
Here are some clues. HyogaRott - 04/03/2013 04:37:39 AM 805 Views
It is math, not the Riddle of the Sphinx: EIther it adds up or does not. Joel - 04/03/2013 05:02:39 AM 942 Views
Math is simple - Either you know how to calculate it or you don't HyogaRott - 04/03/2013 11:55:24 AM 1060 Views
Indeed. Joel - 11/03/2013 09:53:59 PM 964 Views
Re: Indeed. HyogaRott - 13/03/2013 05:00:10 PM 1102 Views
SS is supposed to supplement a proper pension, not provide your sole income after retirement moondog - 05/03/2013 03:53:03 AM 822 Views
Did you bother to actually read anything? HyogaRott - 05/03/2013 02:32:16 PM 885 Views
do *YOU* know what "living in poverty" means? moondog - 05/03/2013 05:49:14 PM 966 Views
Re: do *YOU* know what "living in poverty" means? --- yeah, I've BEEN there. HyogaRott - 05/03/2013 08:01:33 PM 912 Views
how about respond to a post with logic and civility instead of being a troll for once? moondog - 05/03/2013 11:03:00 PM 1032 Views
All I have used is civility and logic, or least as much civility as was warrented. HyogaRott - 06/03/2013 04:28:04 AM 965 Views
yeah, it's my fault for stooping to your level.... moondog - 08/03/2013 07:22:24 PM 1020 Views
Re: yeah, it's my fault for stooping to your level.... HyogaRott - 10/03/2013 01:42:26 PM 881 Views
i'm not going to keep going in circles so i will finish with this.... moondog - 11/03/2013 10:08:53 PM 1180 Views
No loss. HyogaRott - 13/03/2013 04:37:41 PM 819 Views
"Rah! Rah! Rah!" Can we please cut out all this blather and bile? Stephen - 05/03/2013 11:53:41 PM 887 Views
spoken like a true enemy of the state! moondog - 06/03/2013 12:54:38 AM 853 Views
Re: spoken like a true enemy of the state! Stephen - 08/03/2013 03:04:37 PM 909 Views
I was not trolling, but clarifying. Joel - 11/03/2013 09:53:48 PM 962 Views
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