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Hot dog, we have a wiener! Joel Send a noteboard - 01/03/2013 01:40:18 AM

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Hint: Many Republicans call it an unaffordable failure that must be ended ere it bankrupt America. This despite the whole US government openly mooching off its positive cashflow from 1981-2010, and its $2.7 trillion POSITIVE balance (17% of total US debt) being Americas largest single creditor, twice over. The program is said to have been mathematically impossible from the outset, despite being older than most people using it. It is accused of unsustainability, even though its counterparts still work well in most other industrialized nations, including Germany, France, the UK, Canada and Mexico, whose combined life expectancy and population exceed Americas. Can you name this wildly successful US federal program falsely called a "boondoggle"...?

IIRC that money has all been spent on other stuff, so it's not like we're all good to go. Of course it's going to take in more than it puts out. Bernie Madoff did the same thing. So did Charles Ponzi. Doesn't mean we're going to be able to afford to pay off the Baby Boomers without printing money...D'oh!

Saying it failed because we spent its massive surpluses on other things is very telling. That is like saying, "my stockbroker took off to the Caymans with the money I told him to invest: That proves the stock market does not—CANNOT—work!" Come to think of it, that is not too far from what Enron and Worldcom did, not to mention Merrill-Lynch, Citigroup, Bear-Stearns and Lehman Bros.

If Social Security is a Ponzi, so are ALL investments, because each is based on the same thing: Giving someone money to access more money from more people.

There are many basic critical differences between SS and Ponzis, several of which are related:

1) Unlike Ponzis, SS promises NO short term return. Therefore,

2) Ponzis have a static potential "investor" pool; demographics ensures SSs MUST grow unless/until a generation after US fertility falls below replacement level, and

3) very few Ponzi investors die ere the date of their promised return; HALF of SSs did when it was created, though the number is much lower now.

4) Ponzis do not collect money from "investors" AND their employers.

Social Security is in no sense a Ponzi scheme, hence (once again,) its counterparts in Germany, France, the UK, Canada and Mexico, to name but a few, are doing fine despite larger and longer lived populations than Americas. Put another way: If 5 countries with a GDP of $11.5 trillion can provide social security to 360 million people whose life expectancy is >80, a country with 50% MORE income can provide social security to 50 million LESS people whose life expectancy is 2 years LESS.

Social security systems are only in trouble in places juvenile voters spent a generation demanding MORE benefits for LESS taxes and craven politicians let them have both. Exhibits A and B are the US and Greece, but that is an indictment of purblind incompetence, not welfare states, which are are doing better in all other cases than any alternative on the planet. Sorry, Cannoli, but you are too smart to get away with playing dumb (and channeling my governor DEFINITELY qualifies. :[)

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Can You Name the Largest US Program to ANNUALLY Collect More Than It Spent for 75 Straight Years? - 28/02/2013 11:03:18 PM 1301 Views
It's the world's greatest Ponzi scheme, since the government forces us to give money to it. - 01/03/2013 01:05:05 PM 740 Views
Yes, "government forcing people to give money" defines a Ponzi; speeding tickets are Ponzis. - 01/03/2013 03:53:02 PM 866 Views
Good lord my friend..... - 02/03/2013 04:19:35 AM 781 Views
I will just link what Isaac said; maybe then you will pay attention to it. - 02/03/2013 04:56:34 AM 822 Views
I really think you terribly misread what I said *NM* - 02/03/2013 06:59:56 AM 430 Views
Yes he did. He has very poor reading comprehension skills. *NM* - 03/03/2013 01:07:59 AM 457 Views
I really do not think I did. - 04/03/2013 01:43:02 AM 859 Views
I'm pretty confident you have - 04/03/2013 11:49:19 AM 845 Views
We evidently disagree on what constitutes a Ponzi scheme. - 11/03/2013 09:56:27 PM 766 Views
No, I agree with a clear definiton, you seem not to want to absorb that - 11/03/2013 10:24:47 PM 910 Views
It is neither an investment nor fraudulent. - 12/03/2013 02:34:09 AM 979 Views
Okay, that's a really weird or naive standard to judge SS by - 01/03/2013 05:25:11 PM 787 Views
Great; will you put that on a postcard to Cannoli, A2K, Rick Perry and the rest of your party? - 01/03/2013 07:39:44 PM 814 Views
Your attacks on republican ideals would have more credit if you understood them - 02/03/2013 04:27:34 AM 797 Views
aH yes the great liberal investmetn/retirement plan that offers me a NEGATIGVE rate of return... - 02/03/2013 11:51:50 AM 711 Views
Do you sincerely believe people earning $14,560/year can afford investing 4% of it? - 04/03/2013 12:53:30 AM 875 Views
*sigh* - 04/03/2013 03:43:08 AM 705 Views
I tried it with compound interest; $44.80/month at 4% for 50 years still does not get to $1.25 mill. - 04/03/2013 04:24:51 AM 788 Views
Here are some clues. - 04/03/2013 04:37:39 AM 649 Views
It is math, not the Riddle of the Sphinx: EIther it adds up or does not. - 04/03/2013 05:02:39 AM 801 Views
Math is simple - Either you know how to calculate it or you don't - 04/03/2013 11:55:24 AM 879 Views
Indeed. - 11/03/2013 09:53:59 PM 788 Views
Re: Indeed. - 13/03/2013 05:00:10 PM 972 Views
SS is supposed to supplement a proper pension, not provide your sole income after retirement - 05/03/2013 03:53:03 AM 666 Views
Did you bother to actually read anything? - 05/03/2013 02:32:16 PM 735 Views
do *YOU* know what "living in poverty" means? - 05/03/2013 05:49:14 PM 802 Views
Re: do *YOU* know what "living in poverty" means? --- yeah, I've BEEN there. - 05/03/2013 08:01:33 PM 776 Views
how about respond to a post with logic and civility instead of being a troll for once? - 05/03/2013 11:03:00 PM 860 Views
All I have used is civility and logic, or least as much civility as was warrented. - 06/03/2013 04:28:04 AM 808 Views
yeah, it's my fault for stooping to your level.... - 08/03/2013 07:22:24 PM 851 Views
Re: yeah, it's my fault for stooping to your level.... - 10/03/2013 01:42:26 PM 721 Views
i'm not going to keep going in circles so i will finish with this.... - 11/03/2013 10:08:53 PM 1068 Views
No loss. - 13/03/2013 04:37:41 PM 662 Views
"Rah! Rah! Rah!" Can we please cut out all this blather and bile? - 05/03/2013 11:53:41 PM 737 Views
spoken like a true enemy of the state! - 06/03/2013 12:54:38 AM 709 Views
Re: spoken like a true enemy of the state! - 08/03/2013 03:04:37 PM 764 Views
I was not trolling, but clarifying. - 11/03/2013 09:53:48 PM 785 Views

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