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That is not an ad hominem attack, and your prior post was not very logically coherent Isaac Send a noteboard - 02/01/2013 08:59:16 PM
Ad hominem requires not just that the counter targets you personally but is also irrelevant to the argument but used as though it were. If I call someone an asshole during an argument, that isn't usually ad hominem, if I call him irrational, that is not ad hominem. The term is getting abused more of late, especially on this site, then Strawman. "What does this man know about surgery? He's an obsessive gambler" is ad hominem. "What does this man know about surgery? He is not a doctor." is typically not. Claiming your opponent's argument (or they) are irrational or incoherent and so on generally won't be ad hominem and most cases I can think of it coming near that first hit various other ones like appeal to ridicule or proof by verbosity, in the context that one might try to discredit an opponent by simply repeating your belief they're a moron rather than ever explaining why.

Now I mention proof by verbosity partially because people use it all the time in these 'hot button' topics and probably most often as the 'everyone knows' ad populum fallacy or it's variation 'everyone with a brain/heart/etc' knows', and that latter is pretty odious on nearly an use but especially anyone in which 'everyone' doesn't include 90+% of adults, like 'the Earth is roughly spherical, not flat'.

I'm going into this because either you've got an incorrect view of what 'ad hominem' means or you think your opponent is too stupid or willfully blind to see the coherence and rightness of your arguments. Problem is, I didn't think they were coherent either, I do not see any justification for your #2 'A lot of people seem to claim/think that of the possible situations, situation 2 is preferable.' nor do you explain why in the hell it is actually relevant. A lot of people think the Moon Landing was faked, ' a lot' is a very vague term, and further one might ask what that has to do with the price of tea in China. Whatever point you were aiming for there, it either doesn't make sense or you have done the classic mistaking of leaving important bits out of an argument that were entirely right but remained in your head and never got transmitted to the audience, pretty common especially in casually written remarks. So it does come off as incoherent, because frankly you didn't get around to gluing them together, they are not adhering, not cohering.

As to #4, that's demonstrably false in numerous reasonable cases I'll cheerfully explain why in inordinate detail if you want, but for brevity's sake here, your case would require literally that there is no reasonable case where self-defense can occur using a gun that spends most of its time locked up in a safe, which is true of damn near every gun every military uses.

You've also started with a pretty confusing premise in the first place, since it revolves around the potential danger of a gun to its owner, something most gun owners are quite aware of, everything has its pros and cons, but in this case is best compared to a bodyguard. An awful lot of people have been betrayed by bodyguards throughout history, this does not invalidate the idea of having some. The logic you've presented would apply equally well to such cases and is very bizarre presented as a serious argument. Many people are murdered by family members or trusted persons, its not a very good reason not to have such people. A city wall won't protect you from riots in the streets, doesn't mean it serves no useful purpose, so to very little can protect you from treachery by a relative or close friend, this doesn't mean it's pointless, just unlikely to protect you from that specific thing. A locked door won't protect your form being robbed by your kid with a key, doesn't mean you don't bother having a door with a lock on it.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein

King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
This message last edited by Isaac on 02/01/2013 at 09:07:06 PM
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When guns are a big national issue, how do reporters & pundits not know facts about them? - 21/12/2012 05:33:14 PM 1538 Views
You don't hunt by walking into a classroom and shooting 20 deer - 21/12/2012 05:56:16 PM 991 Views
You're actually not right on that one - 21/12/2012 07:49:53 PM 919 Views
That wasn't the point I was making - 21/12/2012 09:49:40 PM 865 Views
You should probably clarify it then - 21/12/2012 10:47:26 PM 1021 Views
His post was perfectly clear. Yours seemed like a response to an entirely different post. - 21/12/2012 10:53:39 PM 1177 Views
Explain that remark, it is not obvious to me *NM* - 21/12/2012 11:00:10 PM 529 Views
I think - 21/12/2012 11:13:34 PM 851 Views
Thats' easy, there is simply no such thing as a 'hunting rifle' - 21/12/2012 11:17:41 PM 860 Views
I'd say the expert gunsmith - 21/12/2012 11:28:02 PM 906 Views
I thought I was being perfectly clear. - 21/12/2012 10:57:35 PM 870 Views
Re: I thought I was being perfectly clear. - 21/12/2012 11:25:04 PM 921 Views
Oh I wasn't commenting on the standard of people here - 21/12/2012 11:29:36 PM 841 Views
you're largely correct, which is why we need stronger laws on ownership not guns per se - 21/12/2012 09:39:14 PM 831 Views
I can't think of a better reason than self defense - 21/12/2012 10:33:26 PM 889 Views
He is right about Australia - 21/12/2012 10:46:27 PM 868 Views
No kidding - 21/12/2012 10:59:28 PM 855 Views
If you knew all that - 21/12/2012 11:02:38 PM 879 Views
I think you are on the right track, but to the wrong destination; "lethal weapon" is redundant. - 21/12/2012 11:05:29 PM 862 Views
My read is that the 2nd Amendment not only allows, but mandates, cop-killer bullets. - 22/12/2012 12:45:04 AM 902 Views
Does the Second Amendment protect the rights of felons and the mentally incompetent to have guns? - 22/12/2012 02:35:16 AM 1067 Views
Yes the media is using terms incorrectly but the point still stands. - 22/12/2012 03:02:18 AM 795 Views
Re: Yes the media is using terms incorrectly but the point still stands. - 22/12/2012 04:12:30 AM 852 Views
umm... - 22/12/2012 12:41:31 PM 767 Views
1997 North Hollywood Shootout - 22/12/2012 04:07:39 AM 930 Views
Laws against murder failed to prevent that, too; clearly they are ineffective and should be repealed - 22/12/2012 06:02:24 AM 985 Views
Such laws were never intended for prevention, they define actions that will be punished. *NM* - 23/12/2012 12:57:57 PM 560 Views
So do laws against getting a gun without screening, training and certification. - 23/12/2012 02:01:32 PM 806 Views
Then CHANGE the Constitution, don't ignore it. *NM* - 26/12/2012 03:12:11 PM 494 Views
I am not suggesting either changing or ignoring the Constitution. - 26/12/2012 04:01:02 PM 913 Views
Yes you are. - 26/12/2012 08:06:01 PM 715 Views
Learn logic, and stop needlessly trying to teach me grammar. - 26/12/2012 08:55:25 PM 877 Views
Lear to read, and I won't have to - 27/12/2012 04:28:59 PM 940 Views
You are wrong. - 22/12/2012 12:14:40 PM 889 Views
That explains much; I read somewhere Brits are averse to it. - 22/12/2012 01:17:15 PM 812 Views
We're also averse to being wrong. - 22/12/2012 02:53:49 PM 891 Views
So you say... - 22/12/2012 03:32:16 PM 812 Views
guns r stpid *NM* - 23/12/2012 12:39:30 AM 581 Views
What bemuses me about this thing with Adam Lanza, is that his mother had 5 registered guns - 23/12/2012 07:10:26 AM 908 Views
She was asleep with him in the house. - 23/12/2012 02:24:47 PM 881 Views
LOOK, look, there is another one... - 26/12/2012 03:13:45 PM 821 Views
I find the absolutist ant/pro-gun positions equally dangerous and absurd. - 26/12/2012 04:20:37 PM 796 Views
So we should just *kinda* ignore the Constitution *this* time... But what about NEXT time... - 26/12/2012 08:08:12 PM 782 Views
No, we should enact gun regulation the Constitution explicitly empowers. - 26/12/2012 09:02:12 PM 797 Views
Which would be... NONE. *NM* - 27/12/2012 04:31:53 PM 499 Views
"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state...." - 28/12/2012 05:14:49 PM 789 Views
*see previous grammar lesson* *NM* - 28/12/2012 10:31:43 PM 483 Views
The instant it becomes relevant, I shall. - 28/12/2012 11:45:01 PM 984 Views
Your point being? - 27/12/2012 10:47:29 AM 779 Views
As a father, I would rather kill my own child than have him kill 26 other people. - 27/12/2012 04:35:02 PM 736 Views
And as a father, you are somehow clairvoyant? - 28/12/2012 07:43:08 AM 793 Views
Nice flippant unthinking reply, you and moondog should get together. *NM* - 28/12/2012 04:55:14 PM 541 Views
How is my reply flippant? Your statement was unthinking, not mine. - 29/12/2012 06:59:04 AM 832 Views
YOU asked if it would have been better for her to kill her own child instead, I answered. - 29/12/2012 03:52:02 PM 843 Views
I asked if a shoot out between mother and son had been better, not whether she should have killed - 29/12/2012 08:54:09 PM 775 Views
You make no sense. - 31/12/2012 06:07:50 PM 848 Views
I make no sense to you because you probably just don't understand my point. - 01/01/2013 08:09:11 AM 926 Views
Maybe the heat death of the univers occurs before you finally have a cohearant thought - 01/01/2013 07:34:31 PM 840 Views
You do realize that resorting to personal attacks reveal an inability to make sound arguments? *NM* - 02/01/2013 06:01:33 PM 593 Views
That is not an ad hominem attack, and your prior post was not very logically coherent - 02/01/2013 08:59:16 PM 922 Views
Instead of actually showing why my arguments would be incoherent or why I'm immature, he just said - 05/01/2013 02:02:23 AM 921 Views
He did not - 05/01/2013 01:39:40 PM 1228 Views
Facts are irrelevant when FUD is the order of the day. - 24/12/2012 04:34:18 PM 786 Views
It irritates me too. *NM* - 01/01/2013 01:55:05 PM 503 Views

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