He can already punch her, not all schools are high schools and that's not the norm for spree killers
Isaac Send a noteboard - 30/12/2012 03:05:55 PM
Very unrealistic case too, typically speaking an attack on a school will fall into 1 of 5 categories
1) Random lunatic looking for easy prey
2) Angry employee
3) Angry relative of employee
4) Angry Student
5) Angry relative of student
Note that 1, 2, 3, and 5 the person would be arriving armed already, and an armed teacher/staff is again beneficial. I'd be curious for an example of a spree killing that began with the killer unarmed and becoming armed by taking someone else's weapon. It's not impossible but it is very low-prob. Now a kid with no alternate access to weapons might try something like that but then that lack of access will generally mean they have little to no gun lore or skill and frankly I'd give pretty decent odds on them squeezing the trigger to a big nothing, accidentally ejecting the magazine, and probably shooting with the sort of accuracy that leaves barns untouched.
Only in #4 is that even a realistic option, except big problem being that your hypothetical linebacker is statistically unlikely to be a spree killer. Linebackers may not be at the top of the HS social ladder but they are definitely not the bottom and school athletes typically aren't 'picked on' by their fellow students much relatively. I really doubt many linebackers get their lunch money beaten out of them.
Of course a big thing here is that not all schools have teenagers in them, most, in fact, don't have any. Were I to concede to your point though, and say 'lets try it at elementary schools then' I'm sure you'd find some other thing to object to. I hate arguing with people who have already made up their mind. Hell we could have biometric smart guns nobody but the owner could shoot and I'd bet you'd find an objection.
But 5 'backgrounds' there, 4 the gun can only help, 1 the gun will help except for a minority of cases where the angry student doesn't come pre-armed and also has a solid working knowledge of pistols, keeping in mind that that the working knowledge will generally indicate the student in question already has easier access to a gun then taking it off their teacher. The potential possible helpful cases seem to vastly outweigh the possible unhelpful ones.
Well feel free to say something because I've difficulty seeing how a concealed weapon would damage the desired power dynamic, kids are supposed to be under the power of their teacher or any other responsible adult acting as parental proxy.
1) Random lunatic looking for easy prey
2) Angry employee
3) Angry relative of employee
4) Angry Student
5) Angry relative of student
Note that 1, 2, 3, and 5 the person would be arriving armed already, and an armed teacher/staff is again beneficial. I'd be curious for an example of a spree killing that began with the killer unarmed and becoming armed by taking someone else's weapon. It's not impossible but it is very low-prob. Now a kid with no alternate access to weapons might try something like that but then that lack of access will generally mean they have little to no gun lore or skill and frankly I'd give pretty decent odds on them squeezing the trigger to a big nothing, accidentally ejecting the magazine, and probably shooting with the sort of accuracy that leaves barns untouched.
Only in #4 is that even a realistic option, except big problem being that your hypothetical linebacker is statistically unlikely to be a spree killer. Linebackers may not be at the top of the HS social ladder but they are definitely not the bottom and school athletes typically aren't 'picked on' by their fellow students much relatively. I really doubt many linebackers get their lunch money beaten out of them.
Of course a big thing here is that not all schools have teenagers in them, most, in fact, don't have any. Were I to concede to your point though, and say 'lets try it at elementary schools then' I'm sure you'd find some other thing to object to. I hate arguing with people who have already made up their mind. Hell we could have biometric smart guns nobody but the owner could shoot and I'd bet you'd find an objection.
But 5 'backgrounds' there, 4 the gun can only help, 1 the gun will help except for a minority of cases where the angry student doesn't come pre-armed and also has a solid working knowledge of pistols, keeping in mind that that the working knowledge will generally indicate the student in question already has easier access to a gun then taking it off their teacher. The potential possible helpful cases seem to vastly outweigh the possible unhelpful ones.
To say nothing of the power dynamics that a teacher having a lethal weapon would entail.
Well feel free to say something because I've difficulty seeing how a concealed weapon would damage the desired power dynamic, kids are supposed to be under the power of their teacher or any other responsible adult acting as parental proxy.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
This message last edited by Isaac on 30/12/2012 at 03:08:33 PM
Poll: 54 percent view NRA favorably
28/12/2012 04:23:35 AM
- 975 Views
Hahahaha. That is full of shit. OMG. Thanks for the laughs. *NM*
28/12/2012 06:30:08 AM
- 407 Views
I have this to say about that...
28/12/2012 07:10:52 AM
- 771 Views
That was rather long but probably one of the best things I've read this year
28/12/2012 02:31:24 PM
- 550 Views
Excellent article by a knowledgable individual armed with facts. *NM*
28/12/2012 04:36:23 PM
- 271 Views
See my response to Novo.
28/12/2012 06:28:00 PM
- 641 Views
please cite the errors, manipulations, or lies.
28/12/2012 09:30:28 PM
- 594 Views
I cited two in response to her, and those were just the ones I remember off the top of my head.
28/12/2012 11:07:36 PM
- 725 Views
If you can't remember them, then don't claim them *NM*
29/12/2012 03:08:08 AM
- 326 Views
Two just from memory is enough to substantiate my claim.
29/12/2012 03:35:49 AM
- 613 Views
'Substantiate your claim'? I don't think you're lying, I just don't feel any reason to be swayed...
29/12/2012 04:00:10 AM
- 515 Views
The 2 things you attempted to "cite" were absolute nonsense and proved nothing.
31/12/2012 06:00:00 PM
- 584 Views
Re: I have this to say about that...
28/12/2012 05:23:44 PM
- 653 Views
Never point a gun at anything you are not going to shoot, nor shoot anything you do not mean to kill
28/12/2012 06:13:20 PM
- 613 Views
Still losing the gun debate and it's driving you a little crazy isn't it!
28/12/2012 06:40:51 PM
- 485 Views
Gallup: 58% want more gun control; Ipsos: 70% want more gun control, 90% want background checks.
28/12/2012 10:29:50 PM
- 633 Views
..and 100% want to win the lottery, but it isn't going to happen.
05/01/2013 02:17:50 PM
- 666 Views
Re: I have this to say about that...Actually, modern military weapons are constructed to wound
29/12/2012 08:43:49 PM
- 722 Views
Yeah, uh, no. Not until you do some serious background checks on teachers.
29/12/2012 01:00:20 AM
- 661 Views
GOP estimates of teacher competence have increased to the point of giving them concealed guns.
29/12/2012 02:36:08 AM
- 753 Views
You know the GOP is unlikely to object to background check on teachers, the unions might
29/12/2012 02:56:06 AM
- 615 Views
his premise is "there's already too many guns so why bother trying anything at all now"
07/01/2013 06:27:20 PM
- 624 Views
I don't think that's his sole premise but it's also quite true
07/01/2013 07:05:20 PM
- 653 Views
i think you're missing a piece of the puzzle
07/01/2013 07:23:02 PM
- 576 Views
I'm not missing it, I just don't think it's wise or especially moral
07/01/2013 09:36:05 PM
- 617 Views
moral has nothing to do with it, imho
07/01/2013 11:26:00 PM
- 670 Views
Data is data my friend. Please feel free to present your own data if you would like. *NM*
28/12/2012 05:49:09 PM
- 297 Views
Is that the same Gallup that said 54% of America would vote Romney?
28/12/2012 06:15:43 PM
- 678 Views
Once again data is data.....feel free to cite other polling data. *NM*
28/12/2012 06:38:29 PM
- 288 Views
The goddamn frigging election. *NM*
28/12/2012 07:13:04 PM
- 293 Views
Oh, was the NRA running for something? Good grief, was a ridiculous reach. *NM*
28/12/2012 08:07:56 PM
- 297 Views
No, but it shows Gallup polls are horseshit. *NM*
28/12/2012 08:48:12 PM
- 287 Views
No it doesn't, it only shows that Romney was more awful of a candidate than Obama was. *NM*
28/12/2012 09:14:00 PM
- 302 Views
Not according to Gallup, just most US voters; Gallup DOES say 58% of the US wants more gun control.
28/12/2012 10:22:19 PM
- 788 Views
Yes. Most of us aren't against guns per se; we're against the inane concepts of gun "shows"
29/12/2012 01:06:50 AM
- 527 Views
Exactly, crazy libs like Joel want to get rid of all guns, but normal Americans.....
29/12/2012 01:36:00 AM
- 585 Views
Too bad the radical fringe on both sides drowns us both out so well.
29/12/2012 02:25:31 AM
- 681 Views
Previous polling failures by Gallup are evidence for the claim that Gallup polls are flawed.
29/12/2012 01:05:08 AM
- 683 Views
Gallup was Romney +1 with +/- 4% on Election Day.....turned out Obama +3.
29/12/2012 01:33:45 AM
- 523 Views
So what I don't understand about this whole teachers with gun thing
30/12/2012 12:42:05 AM
- 663 Views
It would strictly be voluntary
30/12/2012 03:02:18 AM
- 642 Views
You seriously don't think a linebacker can take a gun off a 5' teacher?He can just punch her.
30/12/2012 09:45:05 AM
- 621 Views
He can already punch her, not all schools are high schools and that's not the norm for spree killers
30/12/2012 03:05:55 PM
- 718 Views
Leveling that playing field is much of the point of guns.
05/01/2013 05:43:47 PM
- 667 Views
You aren't familiar with guns if you think that a large male can't disarm a woman who has one.
07/01/2013 10:14:21 AM
- 631 Views
Well Paul Ali Slater didn't, disarming is risky, and he seems familiar enough with them to me *NM*
07/01/2013 01:25:28 PM
- 325 Views