The Second Amendment itself states its entire justification as "a well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state." So there is every constitutional basis for regulating the HELL out of arms; they could even be made conditional on militia membership. Banning or confiscating guns would be totally unconstitutional, obviously, but regulating them is perfectly valid. Machine guns, for example, have been illegal without federal registration and permits for about 80 years, and no ones constitutional rights were violated.
learn the grammatical difference between dependant and independent clauses.
Just because the courts are allowing/endorsing it does not mean that it is right/correct/proper.
If I said, "you keep bringing this up, so clearly do not grasp the logic," the first (grammatically dependent) clause would not be irrelevant to the second (grammatically independent) one. Learn what "because" means; it is basic causality: The right of the people to keep and bear arms is CAUSED by the need for a well regulated militia. According to the Second Amendments plain text, the right to keep and bear arms is baseless without the need for a well regulated militia.
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
The word becasue does not appear in there. NOW... grammar lesson...
Dependant vs independant clauses (beginner's edition).
If you remove a dependant clause (often an introductory clause, or 12D in the Harbrace), it can not stand on its own: "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state" is not a complete sentence, thus it is a clause. It is NOT the base meaning of the sentence. It simply sets the stage for the ACTUAL statement. There are 4 clauses (separated by commas in the 2nd amendment. Play mix-N-match with them and see which forms a complete sentence.
- A well regulated militia
- being necessary to the security of a free state
- the right of the people to keep and bear arms
- shall not be infringed
There is ONLY 1 combination that makes a complete sentence "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed” THAT is the meat of the amendment. "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state" is the rational, and in all reality is completely irrelevant. This is not accidental. The people who wrote our Constitution were NOT a bunch of illiterate fools. They knew (extremely well, probably better than most of us) the grammar rules of the English language, and they used it well.
"Purple skin, being quite fetching, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed" has the exact same meaning as "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."
We can have a nice debate/discussion about what the founders thought a "well regulated militia" was in their time, and what would constitute one today, but it is not really relevant to the actual grammar of the statement, or what it is stating.
When guns are a big national issue, how do reporters & pundits not know facts about them?
- 21/12/2012 05:33:14 PM
1640 Views
You don't hunt by walking into a classroom and shooting 20 deer
- 21/12/2012 05:56:16 PM
1064 Views
You're actually not right on that one
- 21/12/2012 07:49:53 PM
997 Views
That wasn't the point I was making
- 21/12/2012 09:49:40 PM
933 Views
You should probably clarify it then
- 21/12/2012 10:47:26 PM
1093 Views
His post was perfectly clear. Yours seemed like a response to an entirely different post.
- 21/12/2012 10:53:39 PM
1255 Views
Explain that remark, it is not obvious to me *NM*
- 21/12/2012 11:00:10 PM
559 Views
I think
- 21/12/2012 11:13:34 PM
929 Views
Thats' easy, there is simply no such thing as a 'hunting rifle'
- 21/12/2012 11:17:41 PM
932 Views
I'd say the expert gunsmith
- 21/12/2012 11:28:02 PM
994 Views
I'm also an expert at math and physics, should I be more forgiving about those too?
- 22/12/2012 12:38:45 AM
935 Views
Re: I'm also an expert at math and physics, should I be more forgiving about those too?
- 22/12/2012 01:00:18 AM
960 Views
Well I appreciate your calling it pedantic when you aren't an expert, thanks for correcting me
- 22/12/2012 01:15:08 AM
1008 Views
Re: Well I appreciate your calling it pedantic when you aren't an expert, thanks for correcting me
- 22/12/2012 09:35:38 AM
1116 Views
I thought I was being perfectly clear.
- 21/12/2012 10:57:35 PM
955 Views
A bit of an aside, but I was reading that the gun used in the attack can be bought in Canada too.
- 21/12/2012 06:14:01 PM
959 Views
you're largely correct, which is why we need stronger laws on ownership not guns per se
- 21/12/2012 09:39:14 PM
910 Views
I can't think of a better reason than self defense
- 21/12/2012 10:33:26 PM
976 Views
He is right about Australia
- 21/12/2012 10:46:27 PM
940 Views
No kidding 
- 21/12/2012 10:59:28 PM
928 Views
- 21/12/2012 10:59:28 PM
928 Views
If you knew all that
- 21/12/2012 11:02:38 PM
976 Views
Because I used wiki of course
- 21/12/2012 11:21:25 PM
1004 Views
He said ""self defense" is not a valid excuse to own a lethal weapon"
- 21/12/2012 11:34:59 PM
878 Views
Yes,which is un-cited, but I did prove it's a valid excuse to use one, so...
- 22/12/2012 12:36:19 AM
1000 Views
The difference between allowing someone to defend themselves with a gun they have
- 22/12/2012 01:09:40 AM
931 Views
Which you apparently think they shouldn't be able to obtain? Catch-22 comes to mind.
- 22/12/2012 01:17:25 AM
941 Views
Re: Which you apparently think they shouldn't be able to obtain? Catch-22 comes to mind.
- 22/12/2012 09:51:51 AM
1019 Views
A wood chipper isn't a gun, and evidence without proof isn't evidence
- 22/12/2012 06:10:34 PM
935 Views
If only you'd asked him for a citation rather than just saying you thought he was wrong eh? *NM*
- 23/12/2012 12:29:30 AM
672 Views
I think you are on the right track, but to the wrong destination; "lethal weapon" is redundant.
- 21/12/2012 11:05:29 PM
932 Views
My read is that the 2nd Amendment not only allows, but mandates, cop-killer bullets.
- 22/12/2012 12:45:04 AM
988 Views
Does the Second Amendment protect the rights of felons and the mentally incompetent to have guns?
- 22/12/2012 02:35:16 AM
1160 Views
Court rulings have determined that your Constitutional Rights can be restricted for felony/insanity *NM*
- 23/12/2012 12:59:31 PM
592 Views
Activist judges should not make law. 
- 23/12/2012 02:04:42 PM
957 Views
- 23/12/2012 02:04:42 PM
957 Views
I agree, but the courts have already ruled that way so we are stuck. *NM*
- 26/12/2012 03:03:35 PM
559 Views
Then I guess we need the courts to rule gun owners need screening, training and licensing.
- 26/12/2012 03:46:05 PM
947 Views
No, if you want to restrict the 2nd (or any other amendment) amend the Constitution
- 26/12/2012 07:56:19 PM
916 Views
I do not want to restrict the Second Amendment, only enact the regulations it explictly allows.
- 26/12/2012 08:50:09 PM
992 Views
I disagree with your interpretation. The simple EXISTANCE of the BoR makes it binding on the states
- 27/12/2012 03:46:17 PM
940 Views
"Congress shall make no law..." restricts the STATES? How, exactly?
- 28/12/2012 03:03:19 PM
911 Views
The 2nd amendment does not mention Congress in any way. There is that reading issue again.
- 28/12/2012 10:02:41 PM
860 Views
You said, "the Bill of Rights," not "the Second Amendment."
- 28/12/2012 11:10:00 PM
919 Views
Copy-N-Paste, get over it. we are specifically discussing the 2nd amendment, not everything.
- 29/12/2012 02:24:30 PM
852 Views
Some semi-autos are easily modified for full auto fire, making the distinction one w/o a difference.
- 21/12/2012 10:53:59 PM
1018 Views
Correction: virtually all semi-automatics are easily convertable
- 21/12/2012 11:23:35 PM
955 Views
I have seen nothing on turning a semi-auto BAR into a fully automatic one.
- 22/12/2012 01:11:12 AM
870 Views
What's a BAR? In any event, link a diagram and I'll let you know
- 22/12/2012 01:26:31 AM
868 Views
Confusingly, there are two: The BAR you and I think of, and the "Browning BAR," a current semi-auto
- 22/12/2012 01:07:30 PM
1009 Views
Department of Redundancy Department gets to name a lot of stuff, like "Milky Way Galaxy"
- 22/12/2012 05:01:45 PM
1146 Views
It only bothers me when people who know better speak of "the Glieseian solar system." 
- 26/12/2012 05:33:34 PM
1028 Views
- 26/12/2012 05:33:34 PM
1028 Views
Both terms are pretty stuck now
- 26/12/2012 10:48:38 PM
1090 Views
You realize that encourages rather than discourages my opposition to the usage, right?
- 27/12/2012 01:23:15 AM
853 Views
- 27/12/2012 01:23:15 AM
853 Views
Well I can't say it surprises
- 27/12/2012 04:29:06 AM
828 Views
Yes the media is using terms incorrectly but the point still stands.
- 22/12/2012 03:02:18 AM
867 Views
Re: Yes the media is using terms incorrectly but the point still stands.
- 22/12/2012 04:12:30 AM
929 Views
Yes people can always still kill each other, humans are very ingenuitive
- 22/12/2012 04:42:04 AM
909 Views
I took a driving exam when I was 16, and have never been tested since, nor will I ever be.
- 23/12/2012 01:17:05 PM
1061 Views
Never is a long time; just renewing a license requires retaking the eye exam most places.
- 23/12/2012 02:16:54 PM
966 Views
Rather hard to do an eye exam online or through the mail.
- 26/12/2012 03:08:06 PM
1044 Views
Yes, it is, which is why I have always had to go by DPS for a new license.
- 26/12/2012 03:50:04 PM
894 Views
Tennessee and Florida pass them out like candy. For several years TN offered a no ID license
- 26/12/2012 08:02:39 PM
893 Views
I still find it odd they require no eye test, that either allows the blind drivers licenses.
- 26/12/2012 08:58:57 PM
925 Views
Oh yeah, we have wandered off course *shrug*
- 27/12/2012 03:55:55 PM
1032 Views
Voter registration while getting a drivers license is distinct from the ease of licensing.
- 28/12/2012 03:35:34 PM
1008 Views
Re: Voter registration while getting a drivers license is distinct from the ease of licensing.
- 28/12/2012 10:14:32 PM
793 Views
If you can prove someone voted illegally, call the ACLU and claim your $1000.
- 28/12/2012 11:18:38 PM
952 Views
puhleeze.... election fraud is a fact. Pick a state, ANY state, ANY election...
- 29/12/2012 02:41:40 PM
923 Views
Clip size is meaningless, semi-autos and even revolvers can be reloaded VERY quickly. *NM*
- 23/12/2012 01:20:59 PM
557 Views
1997 North Hollywood Shootout
- 22/12/2012 04:07:39 AM
1016 Views
typical NRA bullshit response
- 22/12/2012 04:53:40 AM
952 Views
typical Moondog bullshit response
- 23/12/2012 01:06:12 PM
961 Views
of course! there is no connection between having a gun and shooting someone. got it 
- 23/12/2012 02:33:18 PM
840 Views
- 23/12/2012 02:33:18 PM
840 Views
There is no corelation between decidng to kill someone and what tool you use.
- 26/12/2012 03:11:08 PM
905 Views
By that logic no one needs a gun for self-defense; a coffee mug is perfectly adequate.
- 26/12/2012 09:06:51 PM
954 Views
I can kill you with my coffee mug... RESPECT THE MUG but I wouldn't, I might spill the coffee.
- 27/12/2012 04:08:52 PM
813 Views
So you are saying you do not need a gun then? I will keep mine anyway, thanks.
- 28/12/2012 04:19:03 PM
906 Views
- 28/12/2012 04:19:03 PM
906 Views
You covered a bunch of different things, and completely misrepresentted what I wrote
- 28/12/2012 10:28:24 PM
945 Views
Home made explosives are pretty much always illegal; I did not want to overlook legal ones.
- 28/12/2012 11:44:19 PM
1129 Views
Re: Home made explosives are pretty much always illegal; I did not want to overlook legal ones.
- 29/12/2012 03:31:01 PM
880 Views
Laws against murder failed to prevent that, too; clearly they are ineffective and should be repealed
- 22/12/2012 06:02:24 AM
1064 Views
Such laws were never intended for prevention, they define actions that will be punished. *NM*
- 23/12/2012 12:57:57 PM
596 Views
So do laws against getting a gun without screening, training and certification.
- 23/12/2012 02:01:32 PM
884 Views
Then CHANGE the Constitution, don't ignore it. *NM*
- 26/12/2012 03:12:11 PM
513 Views
I am not suggesting either changing or ignoring the Constitution.
- 26/12/2012 04:01:02 PM
994 Views
Yes you are.
- 26/12/2012 08:06:01 PM
805 Views
Learn logic, and stop needlessly trying to teach me grammar.
- 26/12/2012 08:55:25 PM
959 Views
Lear to read, and I won't have to
- 27/12/2012 04:28:59 PM
1007 Views
Ironically, you misspelled "learn."
- 28/12/2012 05:15:17 PM
1242 Views
- 28/12/2012 05:15:17 PM
1242 Views
I know, I thought about going back and fixing the typo, but thought it was funny so I left it. 
*NM*
- 28/12/2012 10:34:06 PM
553 Views
*NM*
- 28/12/2012 10:34:06 PM
553 Views
2 commas or 4 makes no difference one is a 12D the other is a sentance.
- 28/12/2012 10:55:31 PM
892 Views
It makes a huge difference when (incorrectly) claiming to know the text.
- 28/12/2012 11:31:51 PM
1198 Views
and by REGULATED, the authors meeant "able to use it effectively"
- 29/12/2012 03:47:57 PM
957 Views
You are wrong.
- 22/12/2012 12:14:40 PM
965 Views
That explains much; I read somewhere Brits are averse to it.
- 22/12/2012 01:17:15 PM
903 Views
What bemuses me about this thing with Adam Lanza, is that his mother had 5 registered guns
- 23/12/2012 07:10:26 AM
963 Views
She also had many knives, and blunt objecs around the house. Tools are only as good as the user
- 23/12/2012 01:10:58 PM
969 Views
So clearly she wasn't prepared enough... btw, do we know she was sleeping?
- 27/12/2012 10:52:03 AM
900 Views
That she 1) was in bed, 2) had guns for self-defense and 3) was shot 4 times strongly suggests sleep
- 28/12/2012 11:49:20 PM
1000 Views
She was asleep with him in the house.
- 23/12/2012 02:24:47 PM
976 Views
LOOK, look, there is another one...
- 26/12/2012 03:13:45 PM
895 Views
I find the absolutist ant/pro-gun positions equally dangerous and absurd.
- 26/12/2012 04:20:37 PM
893 Views
So we should just *kinda* ignore the Constitution *this* time... But what about NEXT time...
- 26/12/2012 08:08:12 PM
867 Views
No, we should enact gun regulation the Constitution explicitly empowers.
- 26/12/2012 09:02:12 PM
874 Views
Which would be... NONE. *NM*
- 27/12/2012 04:31:53 PM
555 Views
"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state...."
- 28/12/2012 05:14:49 PM
869 Views
Your point being?
- 27/12/2012 10:47:29 AM
856 Views
I am certain it would have been better, though not good, if she had been awake and shot him.
- 27/12/2012 02:16:13 PM
973 Views
So the situation of Nancy and Adam shooting at each other
- 28/12/2012 07:44:12 AM
982 Views
No, I believe they were both mentally incompetent to have guns; that does not mean EVERYONE is.
- 28/12/2012 02:19:51 PM
908 Views
As a father, I would rather kill my own child than have him kill 26 other people.
- 27/12/2012 04:35:02 PM
814 Views
And as a father, you are somehow clairvoyant?
- 28/12/2012 07:43:08 AM
874 Views
Nice flippant unthinking reply, you and moondog should get together. *NM*
- 28/12/2012 04:55:14 PM
569 Views
How is my reply flippant? Your statement was unthinking, not mine.
- 29/12/2012 06:59:04 AM
903 Views
YOU asked if it would have been better for her to kill her own child instead, I answered.
- 29/12/2012 03:52:02 PM
935 Views
I asked if a shoot out between mother and son had been better, not whether she should have killed
- 29/12/2012 08:54:09 PM
861 Views
You make no sense.
- 31/12/2012 06:07:50 PM
941 Views
I make no sense to you because you probably just don't understand my point.
- 01/01/2013 08:09:11 AM
1008 Views
Maybe the heat death of the univers occurs before you finally have a cohearant thought
- 01/01/2013 07:34:31 PM
924 Views
You do realize that resorting to personal attacks reveal an inability to make sound arguments? *NM*
- 02/01/2013 06:01:33 PM
631 Views
That is not an ad hominem attack, and your prior post was not very logically coherent
- 02/01/2013 08:59:16 PM
1001 Views
Instead of actually showing why my arguments would be incoherent or why I'm immature, he just said
- 05/01/2013 02:02:23 AM
1004 Views