Mainly in that you are treating that proposal and the NRAs as mutually exclusive, and that engaging them on the basis of their specious claim gun control=prohibition implicitly legitimizes it. I feel like most people opposing their quite reasonable proposal are doing so solely to have another fight with the NRA (which clearly wants that just as badly) and demonize it as dangerously radical. I mean, c'mon, man putting a cop or two at a school "militarizes" it? Are you going to sit there and tell me that is a MODERATE view? If all law enforcement is so dangerously untrustworthy, who do you suggest enforce gun control laws?
i never said law enforcement is untrustworthy, i am saying that having them stationed in front of schools makes them primary targets in a shooting, and has not been shown to prevent massacres. in the case of the NYPD taking out a gunman in front of the empire state building, 9 people were injured by police gunfire. highly trained shooters cannot rely on a magic bullet only hitting their intended target and nothing else. when those other bystanders are 5 year old children, the risk is far beyond the reward. having people like chris christie and other prominent republicans in office denigrate the NRA's proposal suggests it is not as moderate nor sane as you would try to make it out to be.
That is actually a good example of a case where armed cops on the scene when the shooting began DID prevent a massacre. A number of people were injured when bullets struck surrounding objects and sent shrapnel flying, and the video of that incident suggests those cops were HORRIBLY trained, but how many people would that gunman have killed had the cops not been there and acted? We need only look at Aurora and Newtown to learn the answer.
I consider Christie a non-factor, btw. He is governor of NJ, so Newtown hit close to home and I doubt he can be fully objective about it. He is also a Republican, which means he must run far to the left of his party to remain viable in NJ, and is an endangered species in the Northeast regardless. He may be a union-buster, but cannot afford to be seen as a typical Republican (which will probably toast him during the 2016 primaries, but that is another issue.)
Sure, if someone decides to commit a mass shooting when he sees armed cops in front of him they will be his first target, but I would rather it be cops trained and armed to fight back than unarmed children. All but the most deranged will not attempt a massacre where armed cops are present anyway, and while I do not consider that an argument for putting armed cops on every street corner and in every convenience store, the vulnerability of schools justifies it for them.
at its heart, the NRA is nowadays nothing more than a shill for gun manufacturers. at one point they were about proper gun training and responsibility but they've gone beyond that and only care about making more money for the gun makers and nothing else. in this regard they are the right wing version of PETA and have the same level of lunacy with regards to public outreach and policy. PETA could also suggest something that might make sense, but like the NRA, at the end of the day they are still only concerned with their own self-promotion and no longer stand for the principles which they used to promote quite successfully.
If the suggestion has merit, wtf cares whence it came? But more importantly, when they propose something reasonable and you automatically attack it because of the source, it is YOU, not they, who sound like you are shilling for a personal agenda. Either the idea has merit or not (obviously I think it does) and that is the basis on which it should be addressed. Attacking it simply because it is the NRAs is a classic ad hominem beneath you.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
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LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
the NRA shows it is an asylum overrun by lunatics
22/12/2012 04:40:26 PM
- 1207 Views
I do not see why calling for armed cops at schools is an unreasonable response.
22/12/2012 04:53:06 PM
- 726 Views
I can think of two reasons off the top of my head
22/12/2012 05:38:19 PM
- 760 Views
If the schools that the children of our elected representatives attend are gaurded, so should mine.
26/12/2012 03:00:35 PM
- 551 Views
If someone is shooting at you having a gun to shoot back seems like a good idea
26/12/2012 06:10:07 PM
- 574 Views
The effectiveness issue aside
22/12/2012 06:13:30 PM
- 624 Views
Re: The effectiveness issue aside
22/12/2012 06:59:36 PM
- 713 Views
If you think it would solve the debate then probably
22/12/2012 07:09:42 PM
- 671 Views
Nothing will ever truly end the debate, but we can greatly reduce or end its justification.
22/12/2012 08:03:39 PM
- 633 Views
If it's shown to work
23/12/2012 12:25:38 AM
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Of the many school shootings in recent years, I am aware of none where armed cops were present.
23/12/2012 12:47:32 AM
- 619 Views
columbine had two armed guards on the day of the shooting. they were both immediately fired upon...
23/12/2012 12:49:30 AM
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I have never seen any mention of them among the injured or dead (or at all.)
23/12/2012 01:09:38 AM
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you should try harder
23/12/2012 01:15:34 AM
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"a motorcycle patrolman who was near the school writing a speeding ticket" is not stationed there.
23/12/2012 01:34:50 AM
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he still didn't stop the shooting, whether he was there before or after it started
23/12/2012 01:49:24 AM
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No kidding; how could he stop the shooting before it started if he was not there?
23/12/2012 02:16:59 AM
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A fuller account of Gardner
23/12/2012 10:27:24 AM
- 817 Views
Nice link.
23/12/2012 02:27:30 PM
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Re: Nice link.
23/12/2012 03:15:24 PM
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Inexplicably, Ft. Hood was a gun free zone (guess no one told the shooter.)
26/12/2012 06:12:42 PM
- 587 Views
Re: Nice link.
23/12/2012 04:21:27 PM
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Gardner:If you’re going to put a police officer in a school, make sure his focus stays on the school
26/12/2012 06:40:41 PM
- 615 Views
The children are what matter, not the school. Surely this isn't something you disagree on?
29/12/2012 02:15:12 PM
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As usual Moondog, you are missing a BUNCH of facts on this one (links inside)
26/12/2012 07:51:29 PM
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at last count, over 99,000 schools in the US
23/12/2012 12:45:30 AM
- 665 Views
What is public safety worth to you?
23/12/2012 12:54:04 AM
- 585 Views
it's not entirely a matter of cost, although that factors into it.
23/12/2012 01:01:50 AM
- 522 Views
There are many cases where armed cops ended mass shootings.
23/12/2012 01:28:25 AM
- 528 Views
there are none where an armed guard placed there *before* the shooting had any effect
23/12/2012 01:36:42 AM
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Kind of a Catch-22; if they PREVENT shootings, shootings can only occur in their absence.
23/12/2012 01:52:03 AM
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ok, here is my last word on the subject
23/12/2012 02:06:49 AM
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9 people injured vs. 20 people dead.
23/12/2012 02:34:00 AM
- 574 Views
it is still "more guns makes us safer" which has yet to prevent a single massacre in this country
23/12/2012 02:41:56 PM
- 695 Views
Care to prove that negative? The burden to do so is on you as the person who made the assertion.
26/12/2012 06:47:07 PM
- 547 Views
It doesn't have to be a full time gaurd standing looking dangerous.
26/12/2012 06:12:14 PM
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Re: the NRA shows it is an asylum overrun by lunatics
22/12/2012 06:36:32 PM
- 753 Views
I believe it is fairly common in junior and high schools today, but not elementary schools.
22/12/2012 07:12:32 PM
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This entire post is completely irrelevant.
22/12/2012 07:27:45 PM
- 703 Views
Those who want univeral prohibition/access are equally fringe minorities.
22/12/2012 08:18:00 PM
- 648 Views
there is no Left or Right on this issue, there is only Sane and Insane
23/12/2012 12:59:08 AM
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also: it's insulting to tell parents their kids would be alive if only more guns were around
23/12/2012 01:30:53 AM
- 624 Views
People die from all sort of causes
22/12/2012 07:27:53 PM
- 641 Views
Cars require training, certification and licensing, too; why should guns not?
22/12/2012 08:25:43 PM
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Do bombs require certification?
22/12/2012 09:21:25 PM
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No, they are pretty much illegal for the general public under all conditions.
22/12/2012 09:35:35 PM
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i say this with all due respect -- eat a bag of dicks
23/12/2012 01:04:08 AM
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That was pretty damn respectful under the circumstances.
23/12/2012 01:10:04 AM
- 624 Views
The lack of intellect displayed here is to be expected
23/12/2012 04:01:32 AM
- 635 Views
so according to you we should just make life illegal since everyone is going to die from something..
23/12/2012 07:25:05 AM
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Obviously you didn't put pay attention
23/12/2012 01:40:17 PM
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no, you said "fuck it because people die anyway". there is a big difference
23/12/2012 02:46:46 PM
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Dicks and stones
23/12/2012 03:54:25 AM
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cars and guns kill roughly the same number of people every year -- around 30,000 give or take
23/12/2012 01:02:44 AM
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But over half of gun deaths are suicide.....so cars are much more dangerous to society. *NM*
23/12/2012 05:35:45 AM
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Every year is iffy there, it dropped off the last two, was 40k-50k plus for cars since 1962
23/12/2012 11:55:50 AM
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except that cars are legislated to be safer every year, guns aren't.
23/12/2012 03:01:36 PM
- 604 Views
Guns are for killing, cars are for transport, cars aren't any safer now against use for homicide
23/12/2012 08:22:13 PM
- 564 Views
but if we are trying to minimize the number of deaths, then more MUST be done for gun laws
24/12/2012 03:33:31 AM
- 544 Views
More must be done to minimize, not necessarily with greater regulation
24/12/2012 04:27:04 AM
- 660 Views
Re: More must be done to minimize, not necessarily with greater regulation
25/12/2012 04:49:54 PM
- 624 Views
Re: More must be done to minimize, not necessarily with greater regulation
25/12/2012 08:41:53 PM
- 593 Views
Here is some interesting data.....knives are as dangerous as "non-handguns"
23/12/2012 05:45:08 AM
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I hope you don't mind me taking this opportunity to plug my new book, "How to Cook with Guns" *NM*
23/12/2012 03:04:06 PM
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there was a school mass stabbing in china the same day as sandy hook
23/12/2012 03:18:00 PM
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I am equally happy that the criminal was incompetant, but that does not diminish their lethality
27/12/2012 10:45:33 PM
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I'm not sure it's about guns.
23/12/2012 06:08:50 PM
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IMO it is about the media attention focuised on the perpetrator. Their name becomes history. *NM*
27/12/2012 10:47:15 PM
- 327 Views