Active Users:1121 Time:22/11/2024 09:24:24 PM
Kind of a Catch-22; if they PREVENT shootings, shootings can only occur in their absence. Joel Send a noteboard - 23/12/2012 01:52:03 AM

All the way back to the UT Tower shootings. Typically, mass shooters get shot when armed cops arrive, either by the cops or by themselves. Armed cops routinely end all kinds of gun violence; that, after all, is why they have guns, and there is nothing non-sensical about that. A federal program (which is what I understood to be on the table) would not financially burden school districts, and even local programs would place the financial burden on the local law enforcement agencies guarding the schools, not the school districts. You think our old high school pays the cops who cruise the parking lot in squad cars at lunch?

You would rather fund training and certification, which the NRA says is ineffective and too expensive; they would rather fund police guarding schools, which you say is ineffective and too expensive. Those both sound less like rebuttals than excuses. I am truly sick and tired of the irrational fringes on both sides shouting each other down with strawmen and canards while the vast majority of America desperately seeks a rational effective policy amid those shrill hyperbolic distractions.

Lemme simplify this: The SOLE reason ANYONE listens to the gun lobbys alarmist hyperbolic claims about confiscation is because radical fringe gun control advocates make them credible. Likewise, the SOLE reason ANYONE listens to the other sides alarmist hyperbolic claims about all the people trying to turn their backyards into Ft. Dix is because radical fringe gun rights advocates make them credible. They are not rebutting each other, they are VALIDATING each other. And getting in the way of the vast majority who categorically disagrees with both as we try to draft effective reasonable national gun policy. Anyone who wants people to dismiss the pro/anti-gun lobby as delusional should stop making its fears so plausible to everyone else.

charles whitman was taken down after he had already killed, it was not a guard who happened to interfere with his attack but rather a concerted effort between two officers who had to sneak up on him to get a clean shot. i can find no instances of an armed guard stationed in a position to be the interceptor that has ever actually intercepted a shooter and prevented a massacre.

There were no armed police present when Whitman began shooting; once armed police reached him he was killed, and the massacre ended, almost immediately.

also, you yourself made the case that guns should be regulated similarly to vehicle ownership. how is what i am saying so different to what you said below that you feel the need to label it "hyperbolic" and "irrational fringe"?

Mainly in that you are treating that proposal and the NRAs as mutually exclusive, and that engaging them on the basis of their specious claim gun control=prohibition implicitly legitimizes it. I feel like most people opposing their quite reasonable proposal are doing so solely to have another fight with the NRA (which clearly wants that just as badly) and demonize it as dangerously radical. I mean, c'mon, man putting a cop or two at a school "militarizes" it? Are you going to sit there and tell me that is a MODERATE view? If all law enforcement is so dangerously untrustworthy, who do you suggest enforce gun control laws?

You are rising to the bait, man, getting played. LaPierre is putting out a very reasonable proposal in a very combative tone, and you are responding to the latter rather than the former. Categorically condemning a reasonable proposal just because it comes from the NRA does not impress many people as moderate.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.

Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!

LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Reply to message
the NRA shows it is an asylum overrun by lunatics - 22/12/2012 04:40:26 PM 1208 Views
I do not see why calling for armed cops at schools is an unreasonable response. - 22/12/2012 04:53:06 PM 727 Views
I can think of two reasons off the top of my head - 22/12/2012 05:38:19 PM 760 Views
OK... - 22/12/2012 06:58:42 PM 724 Views
If someone is shooting at you having a gun to shoot back seems like a good idea - 26/12/2012 06:10:07 PM 575 Views
The effectiveness issue aside - 22/12/2012 06:13:30 PM 624 Views
Re: The effectiveness issue aside - 22/12/2012 06:59:36 PM 714 Views
If you think it would solve the debate then probably - 22/12/2012 07:09:42 PM 671 Views
Nothing will ever truly end the debate, but we can greatly reduce or end its justification. - 22/12/2012 08:03:39 PM 634 Views
If it's shown to work - 23/12/2012 12:25:38 AM 720 Views
columbine had two armed guards on the day of the shooting. they were both immediately fired upon... - 23/12/2012 12:49:30 AM 608 Views
I have never seen any mention of them among the injured or dead (or at all.) - 23/12/2012 01:09:38 AM 755 Views
A fuller account of Gardner - 23/12/2012 10:27:24 AM 818 Views
Nice link. - 23/12/2012 02:27:30 PM 608 Views
Re: Nice link. - 23/12/2012 03:15:24 PM 587 Views
at last count, over 99,000 schools in the US - 23/12/2012 12:45:30 AM 666 Views
What is public safety worth to you? - 23/12/2012 12:54:04 AM 586 Views
it's not entirely a matter of cost, although that factors into it. - 23/12/2012 01:01:50 AM 523 Views
There are many cases where armed cops ended mass shootings. - 23/12/2012 01:28:25 AM 529 Views
there are none where an armed guard placed there *before* the shooting had any effect - 23/12/2012 01:36:42 AM 659 Views
Kind of a Catch-22; if they PREVENT shootings, shootings can only occur in their absence. - 23/12/2012 01:52:03 AM 721 Views
ok, here is my last word on the subject - 23/12/2012 02:06:49 AM 643 Views
9 people injured vs. 20 people dead. - 23/12/2012 02:34:00 AM 574 Views
it is still "more guns makes us safer" which has yet to prevent a single massacre in this country - 23/12/2012 02:41:56 PM 695 Views
Peter Odighizuwa comes to mind, that's also horrible logic - 23/12/2012 08:27:46 PM 582 Views
[citation needed] - 25/12/2012 04:54:14 PM 581 Views
Fair enough - 25/12/2012 09:06:43 PM 938 Views
It doesn't have to be a full time gaurd standing looking dangerous. - 26/12/2012 06:12:14 PM 678 Views
People die from all sort of causes - 22/12/2012 07:27:53 PM 642 Views
Cars require training, certification and licensing, too; why should guns not? - 22/12/2012 08:25:43 PM 779 Views
Do bombs require certification? - 22/12/2012 09:21:25 PM 870 Views
i say this with all due respect -- eat a bag of dicks - 23/12/2012 01:04:08 AM 663 Views
That was pretty damn respectful under the circumstances. - 23/12/2012 01:10:04 AM 625 Views
The lack of intellect displayed here is to be expected - 23/12/2012 04:01:32 AM 636 Views
so according to you we should just make life illegal since everyone is going to die from something.. - 23/12/2012 07:25:05 AM 560 Views
Obviously you didn't put pay attention - 23/12/2012 01:40:17 PM 589 Views
no, you said "fuck it because people die anyway". there is a big difference - 23/12/2012 02:46:46 PM 579 Views
As usual, you are wrong on so many fronts... - 27/12/2012 10:39:04 PM 896 Views
Dicks and stones - 23/12/2012 03:54:25 AM 771 Views
FYI - I gave moondog a 30-day time-out via the ignore function. - 23/12/2012 05:48:13 AM 515 Views
FYI -- you didn't post to this board for 30+ days - 23/12/2012 07:21:44 AM 519 Views
I'm not sure it's about guns. - 23/12/2012 06:08:50 PM 595 Views

Reply to Message