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There are many cases where armed cops ended mass shootings. Joel Send a noteboard - 23/12/2012 01:28:25 AM
cost would be the main one. I don't know how many schools there are in the US, but having at least one armed police officer at every one? You're talking billions at the very least.

and we have to pay them something on the order of $40k per year or else it will be hard to find someone to do the job. and probably give them benefits.... etc etc. billions is probably about right.

How much would it cost to implement a national program to screen, train and certify all gun owners? How much would it cost to confiscate all guns? There is nearly a 1:1 ratio of guns to people in America; controlling access to all of them will be expensive HOWEVER we do it. That does not deter gun control supporters from advocating other expensive approaches, so why is it suddenly so objectionable?

I am sorry, but gun control advocates raising cost objections to a reasonable NRA proposal that would significantly increase public safety is no more credible than the NRA raising cost objections to screening, training and certification requirements. Neither them objects to doing it because they do not wish to pay for it: They object to paying for it because they do not wish to do it. Meanwhile, innocent people continue being shot because one side wants to ban all guns, the other wants all guns available on demand, and 90% of the country rightly refuses to support either irrational policy.


there is no case at all of any mass shooting where an armed guard either prevented the shooting or reduced the number of casualties. the cost problem comes in because we are talking about a lot of school districts who would rather hire two more teachers but instead they have to hire armed guards and make sure they get their proper training, and then HOPE that if they are needed that they don't make things worse for everyone. if we're going to spend tax dollars on curbing gun violence, i would rather tax dollars go towards training and registration rather than a non-sensical idea which has not been proven to be effective.

All the way back to the UT Tower shootings. Typically, mass shooters get shot when armed cops arrive, either by the cops or by themselves. Armed cops routinely end all kinds of gun violence; that, after all, is why they have guns, and there is nothing non-sensical about that. A federal program (which is what I understood to be on the table) would not financially burden school districts, and even local programs would place the financial burden on the local law enforcement agencies guarding the schools, not the school districts. You think our old high school pays the cops who cruise the parking lot in squad cars at lunch?

You would rather fund training and certification, which the NRA says is ineffective and too expensive; they would rather fund police guarding schools, which you say is ineffective and too expensive. Those both sound less like rebuttals than excuses. I am truly sick and tired of the irrational fringes on both sides shouting each other down with strawmen and canards while the vast majority of America desperately seeks a rational effective policy amid those shrill hyperbolic distractions.

Lemme simplify this: The SOLE reason ANYONE listens to the gun lobbys alarmist hyperbolic claims about confiscation is because radical fringe gun control advocates make them credible. Likewise, the SOLE reason ANYONE listens to the other sides alarmist hyperbolic claims about all the people trying to turn their backyards into Ft. Dix is because radical fringe gun rights advocates make them credible. They are not rebutting each other, they are VALIDATING each other. And getting in the way of the vast majority who categorically disagrees with both as we try to draft effective reasonable national gun policy. Anyone who wants people to dismiss the pro/anti-gun lobby as delusional should stop making its fears so plausible to everyone else.
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This message last edited by Joel on 23/12/2012 at 01:29:08 AM
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the NRA shows it is an asylum overrun by lunatics - 22/12/2012 04:40:26 PM 1208 Views
I do not see why calling for armed cops at schools is an unreasonable response. - 22/12/2012 04:53:06 PM 726 Views
I can think of two reasons off the top of my head - 22/12/2012 05:38:19 PM 760 Views
OK... - 22/12/2012 06:58:42 PM 723 Views
If someone is shooting at you having a gun to shoot back seems like a good idea - 26/12/2012 06:10:07 PM 574 Views
The effectiveness issue aside - 22/12/2012 06:13:30 PM 624 Views
Re: The effectiveness issue aside - 22/12/2012 06:59:36 PM 713 Views
If you think it would solve the debate then probably - 22/12/2012 07:09:42 PM 671 Views
Nothing will ever truly end the debate, but we can greatly reduce or end its justification. - 22/12/2012 08:03:39 PM 633 Views
If it's shown to work - 23/12/2012 12:25:38 AM 720 Views
columbine had two armed guards on the day of the shooting. they were both immediately fired upon... - 23/12/2012 12:49:30 AM 608 Views
I have never seen any mention of them among the injured or dead (or at all.) - 23/12/2012 01:09:38 AM 755 Views
A fuller account of Gardner - 23/12/2012 10:27:24 AM 818 Views
Nice link. - 23/12/2012 02:27:30 PM 607 Views
Re: Nice link. - 23/12/2012 03:15:24 PM 587 Views
at last count, over 99,000 schools in the US - 23/12/2012 12:45:30 AM 665 Views
What is public safety worth to you? - 23/12/2012 12:54:04 AM 585 Views
it's not entirely a matter of cost, although that factors into it. - 23/12/2012 01:01:50 AM 523 Views
There are many cases where armed cops ended mass shootings. - 23/12/2012 01:28:25 AM 529 Views
there are none where an armed guard placed there *before* the shooting had any effect - 23/12/2012 01:36:42 AM 658 Views
Kind of a Catch-22; if they PREVENT shootings, shootings can only occur in their absence. - 23/12/2012 01:52:03 AM 720 Views
ok, here is my last word on the subject - 23/12/2012 02:06:49 AM 643 Views
9 people injured vs. 20 people dead. - 23/12/2012 02:34:00 AM 574 Views
it is still "more guns makes us safer" which has yet to prevent a single massacre in this country - 23/12/2012 02:41:56 PM 695 Views
Peter Odighizuwa comes to mind, that's also horrible logic - 23/12/2012 08:27:46 PM 582 Views
[citation needed] - 25/12/2012 04:54:14 PM 580 Views
Fair enough - 25/12/2012 09:06:43 PM 937 Views
It doesn't have to be a full time gaurd standing looking dangerous. - 26/12/2012 06:12:14 PM 677 Views
People die from all sort of causes - 22/12/2012 07:27:53 PM 642 Views
Cars require training, certification and licensing, too; why should guns not? - 22/12/2012 08:25:43 PM 778 Views
Do bombs require certification? - 22/12/2012 09:21:25 PM 870 Views
i say this with all due respect -- eat a bag of dicks - 23/12/2012 01:04:08 AM 662 Views
That was pretty damn respectful under the circumstances. - 23/12/2012 01:10:04 AM 624 Views
The lack of intellect displayed here is to be expected - 23/12/2012 04:01:32 AM 635 Views
so according to you we should just make life illegal since everyone is going to die from something.. - 23/12/2012 07:25:05 AM 559 Views
Obviously you didn't put pay attention - 23/12/2012 01:40:17 PM 588 Views
no, you said "fuck it because people die anyway". there is a big difference - 23/12/2012 02:46:46 PM 579 Views
As usual, you are wrong on so many fronts... - 27/12/2012 10:39:04 PM 895 Views
Dicks and stones - 23/12/2012 03:54:25 AM 771 Views
FYI - I gave moondog a 30-day time-out via the ignore function. - 23/12/2012 05:48:13 AM 515 Views
FYI -- you didn't post to this board for 30+ days - 23/12/2012 07:21:44 AM 519 Views
I'm not sure it's about guns. - 23/12/2012 06:08:50 PM 594 Views

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