Active Users:1209 Time:22/11/2024 08:38:54 PM
Of the many school shootings in recent years, I am aware of none where armed cops were present. Joel Send a noteboard - 23/12/2012 12:47:32 AM
cost would be the main one. I don't know how many schools there are in the US, but having at least one armed police officer at every one? You're talking billions at the very least.

Another case where the level of justified public debate about gun violence strongly suggests the cost would be more than worth it.

The evidence based on events like Columbine suggests it wouldn't, if it doesn't then that's quite a waste of 10% of your education budget.

As I noted in response to Novo, the novel appearance of armed police in US high schools coincided suspiciously well with Columbine. So, no, armed police in high schools did not prevent Columbine for the very simple reason armed police were virtually non-existent in US high schools prior to Columbine. They became ubiquitous promptly thereafter, which may be part of why the Newtown shooter attacked an elementary rather than junior or high school.

It is difficult to imagine armed police at schools would not dramatically reduce the incidence of school shootings. The only question is whether the current frequency and mortality of school shootings justifies the expense of greatly reducing or completely preventing them. I believe we are past the point of debating that.

then it will be worth the money obviously, it's if it doesn't that people will question it on a cost basis and it is a hell of a punt on something that has only small amounts of evidence in it's favour.

That is not conclusive, of course, but is highly suggestive. At this stage, I do not think "it would be expensive and could be ineffective" is a valid reason not to try something. Let us bear in mind that the national screening, training and certification requirements I want for guns would not be cheap or perfect either (those are among the popular NRA objections to them, actually.) Partial/total prohibition/confiscation certainly would not. I doubt any cheap but effective new national policy is possible, but SOME kind of new and effective policy is evidently necessary when we cannot go even six months without someone shooting dozens of innocent people.

The point is, the NRA is not urging vigilantism, handing untrained teachers concealed weapons or daring us to pry their guns from their cold dead hands. They have proposed a reasonable new policy that could not help but substantially improve public safety, with trained officers accountable to the public. Attacking that as some kind of violent radicalism is counterproductive. Gun control advocates have for years impatiently demanded the NRA propose/support reasonable policies to improve public safety; condemning them for finally doing so is not only insultingly ungrateful, but discourages them from wasting their time trying in future.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.

Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!

LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Reply to message
the NRA shows it is an asylum overrun by lunatics - 22/12/2012 04:40:26 PM 1207 Views
I do not see why calling for armed cops at schools is an unreasonable response. - 22/12/2012 04:53:06 PM 726 Views
I can think of two reasons off the top of my head - 22/12/2012 05:38:19 PM 759 Views
OK... - 22/12/2012 06:58:42 PM 723 Views
If someone is shooting at you having a gun to shoot back seems like a good idea - 26/12/2012 06:10:07 PM 574 Views
The effectiveness issue aside - 22/12/2012 06:13:30 PM 623 Views
Re: The effectiveness issue aside - 22/12/2012 06:59:36 PM 713 Views
If you think it would solve the debate then probably - 22/12/2012 07:09:42 PM 670 Views
Nothing will ever truly end the debate, but we can greatly reduce or end its justification. - 22/12/2012 08:03:39 PM 633 Views
If it's shown to work - 23/12/2012 12:25:38 AM 719 Views
Of the many school shootings in recent years, I am aware of none where armed cops were present. - 23/12/2012 12:47:32 AM 619 Views
columbine had two armed guards on the day of the shooting. they were both immediately fired upon... - 23/12/2012 12:49:30 AM 607 Views
I have never seen any mention of them among the injured or dead (or at all.) - 23/12/2012 01:09:38 AM 754 Views
A fuller account of Gardner - 23/12/2012 10:27:24 AM 817 Views
Nice link. - 23/12/2012 02:27:30 PM 607 Views
Re: Nice link. - 23/12/2012 03:15:24 PM 586 Views
at last count, over 99,000 schools in the US - 23/12/2012 12:45:30 AM 665 Views
What is public safety worth to you? - 23/12/2012 12:54:04 AM 585 Views
it's not entirely a matter of cost, although that factors into it. - 23/12/2012 01:01:50 AM 522 Views
There are many cases where armed cops ended mass shootings. - 23/12/2012 01:28:25 AM 528 Views
there are none where an armed guard placed there *before* the shooting had any effect - 23/12/2012 01:36:42 AM 658 Views
Kind of a Catch-22; if they PREVENT shootings, shootings can only occur in their absence. - 23/12/2012 01:52:03 AM 720 Views
ok, here is my last word on the subject - 23/12/2012 02:06:49 AM 643 Views
9 people injured vs. 20 people dead. - 23/12/2012 02:34:00 AM 573 Views
it is still "more guns makes us safer" which has yet to prevent a single massacre in this country - 23/12/2012 02:41:56 PM 694 Views
Peter Odighizuwa comes to mind, that's also horrible logic - 23/12/2012 08:27:46 PM 582 Views
[citation needed] - 25/12/2012 04:54:14 PM 580 Views
Fair enough - 25/12/2012 09:06:43 PM 937 Views
It doesn't have to be a full time gaurd standing looking dangerous. - 26/12/2012 06:12:14 PM 677 Views
People die from all sort of causes - 22/12/2012 07:27:53 PM 641 Views
Cars require training, certification and licensing, too; why should guns not? - 22/12/2012 08:25:43 PM 778 Views
Do bombs require certification? - 22/12/2012 09:21:25 PM 869 Views
i say this with all due respect -- eat a bag of dicks - 23/12/2012 01:04:08 AM 662 Views
That was pretty damn respectful under the circumstances. - 23/12/2012 01:10:04 AM 624 Views
The lack of intellect displayed here is to be expected - 23/12/2012 04:01:32 AM 635 Views
so according to you we should just make life illegal since everyone is going to die from something.. - 23/12/2012 07:25:05 AM 559 Views
Obviously you didn't put pay attention - 23/12/2012 01:40:17 PM 588 Views
no, you said "fuck it because people die anyway". there is a big difference - 23/12/2012 02:46:46 PM 578 Views
As usual, you are wrong on so many fronts... - 27/12/2012 10:39:04 PM 895 Views
Dicks and stones - 23/12/2012 03:54:25 AM 770 Views
FYI - I gave moondog a 30-day time-out via the ignore function. - 23/12/2012 05:48:13 AM 514 Views
FYI -- you didn't post to this board for 30+ days - 23/12/2012 07:21:44 AM 518 Views
I'm not sure it's about guns. - 23/12/2012 06:08:50 PM 594 Views

Reply to Message